Men wanting to be Women

[bert3400]

To think transgender women really have no idea what being a women is ? . Maybe it's time we had a 3rd Gender . Be interested in hearing what real women & transwomen feel ?

Something far more fundamental makes me a woman. No idea what it is. Hopefully science will one day explain

You are a woman because of your sex organs. And your chromosomes. Science has already explained. You are an adult female of the species human, ergo you are a woman.
HTH

@middlegy “feels like he should be a woman” is VERY different to your original statement of “feeling like a woman”. He feels like he’s born into the wrong body. Language is your friend

Rat is also absolutely correct about the way homosexuality used to be viewed.

Homosexuality is when two persons of the same sex are attracted to each other. They are the same sex - neither changes sex.

The only way they are viewed differently now is that we accept it is a normal human trait and not something to be criticised or jailed for.

feels like he should be a woman” is VERY different to your original statement of “feeling like a woman”. He feels like he’s born into the wrong body. Language is your friend

Yes, note the use of the word FEELING in both.

So I think what's being studied is that the characteristics or sex - physical, behavioural or whatever - may present on a spectrum, the broad two halves of which represent the biologically dimorphic nature of our species (as required for reproduction) with a bit of a hazy grey area in the middle.

No - there’s no hazy grey area. The hazy grey stuff is all around gender. There’s no spectrum of sex. Sex is Male or female. Biology doesn’t care about how people feel. Stuff for example that’s psychological to do with someone’s sex - when it’s explored it’s either directly to do with sex (for example PMS) or a consequence of society’s expectations of sex.

The haziness is over gender as it relates to sex and frankly it’s good that that’s questioned. Why should a woman have to be feminine? Why can’t a man be feminine ? Even the word feminine itself, it’s just ‘all the stuff society expects women to do and be.’ All that spectrum stuff is gender. not sex

So let’s explore and frankly smash to bits all the gender crap - let men and women be men and women in whatever way they want to be. Dress how they want, be as feminine as they want without society censuring them for it. But sex remains just Male and female.

And hopefully one day we will accept that it is not completely unusual for people to know they are in the wrong body! And we won’t vilify and exclude and assume they’re all perverts who want to spy on us in the shower!! Ffs

You start with the very basic layers of science and you build on them.

MiggeldyHiggins you made 3 glaring basic science errors in 14 words in the post that I ridiculed earlier. Stop banging on about science, you're embarrassing yourself.

Ugh, it's exhausting.

Transgenderism is a psychological disorder because biology.

Homosexuality is a neurological condition because biology.

Black people are genetically inferior because biology.

Women are the weaker sex because biology.

And so it goes back though the ages.

Perhaps transgenderism is a psychological disorder - as apparently it's currently classified. But I'm not proposing to say it is and always will be just because biology. If science turned around tomorrow and said it definitely is or it definitely isn't I'd totally be okay with that, but as Strong says, right now, we simply don't know!

And hopefully one day we will accept that it is not completely unusual for people to know they are in the wrong body!

We already accept that its not unusual for people to FEEL like they are in the wrong body. It's nothing new
And we won’t vilify and exclude and assume they’re all perverts who want to spy on us in the shower!! Ffs

Nobody is or has done such a thing.

Good luck with any research into the biological causes of being transgender if you don't know the biological sex of your sample.

'Our subjects are all women. Some of them are transwomen, but, gosh, we have no idea which ones, so here are some brain scans and things which might show something...'

i not a woman because of my sex organs. If so, I’m a complete failure as I can’t have sex. Something far more fundamental makes me a woman. No idea what it is. Hopefully science will one day explain

How do you even know you are a woman?

Homosexuality is when two persons of the same sex are attracted to each other. They are the same sex - neither changes sex.

The only way they are viewed differently now is that we accept it is a normal human trait and not something to be criticised or jailed for.

They were viewed as freaks of nature quite a lot actually.

RAT you have confounded so many different issues in to one argument it is painful, and rather offensive.

And self contradictory

I see mummy that you have changed 'feel' to 'know'. Makes no difference I'm afraid. They are still the same sex they were born as.

The haziness is over gender as it relates to sex and frankly it’s good that that’s questioned. Why should a woman have to be feminine? Why can’t a man be feminine ? Even the word feminine itself, it’s just ‘all the stuff society expects women to do and be.’ All that spectrum stuff is gender. not sex

The things I've been reading Bowl isn't all that much about gender roles within society, but rather about secondary sex characteristics (aside from the fundamental plumbing of course) - so very much about the range of the physical expression of one's genetic sex. And also about sexual behaviours, such as one would expect to be linked to one's genetics. So not just "gender".

Rat is also absolutely correct about the way homosexuality used to be viewed.

No - no reality was broken during the millennia we got to grips with homosexuality. People thought it was wrong but they didn’t deny reality. They thought the reality of two people of the same sex being attracted was wrong.

What’s happening now is people are saying that humans are actually changing sex So that a straight male who thinks he’s a woman is a lesbian. He’s still a straight male.

So before we had a real situation and people saying it was wrong/sinful etc. Now we have a situation that’s not based in reality when frankly no one really cares if men want to dress as women.

The solutions for both issues are different too. Gay rights didn’t take rights away from other groups. Gay marriage didn’t invalidate straight marriage. But what TRA groups want comes at the expense of other groups - women and children. It’s for that reason people are opposing self ID and changes to the GRA. They are NOT opposing the idea of transpeople. They understand and accept that some people don’t conform to gender norms and that some people suffer from gender dysphoria. No one has an issue with that - whatcthey have an issue with is the aggressive takeover of women's spaces, and the reductions in safety, privacy, dignity and safeguarding that accompanies it.

That’s a pro woman pro child stance.

They were viewed as freaks of nature quite a lot actually.
Yes they were, and unfortunately in some countries or religions they still are. It's disgusting.

How do you know you are a woman TERF?

In my case I’ve made clear that I have female sex organs (which are useless), but my genitalia doesn’t make me know I’m a woman. There’s something more profound and fundamental that I’m hoping at some stage science will explain.

What tho. I'm not going to let penis in my daughters change on the grounds of 'something more profound'.

In my case I’ve made clear that I have female sex organs (which are useless), but my genitalia doesn’t make me know I’m a woman. There’s something more profound and fundamental that I’m hoping at some stage science will explain.

So how do you know you are one then?

Bowl - what aggressive take over?! Seriously what aggressive takeover? Can you me a real life example that YOU have personally experienced . I have not experienced it. None of my friends have experienced it. I don’t understand this “aggressive takeover”

Thats just completely meaningless. Something profound makes you feel like a woman, but the actual reality of you being a woman isn't it?
Tripe.

@TERF no idea. Why are you a woman?

Gay marriage didn’t invalidate straight marriage.
No, but a small group of regressive fuckwits believed it did.