To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

siwel Because they know they can get away with it because more is expected looks wise from women than men.

Of course sexism plays a role in that.

Age. The pay gap needs to be like for like roles not a cleaner and a pilot compared. Or a software engineer and a barber.

It seems to be people think they can cherry pick what parts of equality they want and not the others. Which is a shame.

He asked, pursued even. he chose the place

in this case YANBU, id find it a bit off putting to start calculating and I’d expect him to pay.

And for future dates I think either one of you should pay the whole bill, or split 50/50 regardless of what you ate

I'm sort of with you OP.
This is why I always go for drinks only first.
I would expect him to step up for the 1st round.
And then we take it in turns.
Some insist on buying more but I won't allow it.
It's quite insulting to assume I shouldn't pay.
A meal is a bit different.
I would expect the guy to offer to pay but I would want to go halves.
If he insisted then I would accept graciously but insist on buying the drinks for the rest of the night.
If that makes any sense?

hellsbells i agree with that.

@Helenadove and @triangleisarealinstrument don't waste your breath, I'm not bothering anymore. I can't be arsed to repeat myself over and over and get into arguments with narrow-minded militant feminists, and men who clearly don't like women. And I have noticed the most angry and vitriolic posts on this thread are from men. (Who have clearly had bad experiences of women expecting them to pay on dates LOL!)

I know what kind of man I like and want, and it's not one who brings a fucking calculator to our first date. @siwel123 and @pangalaticgargleblaster 's posts are particularly telling, and I pity anyone ending up on a date with them (or married to them.)

thetriangleisarealinstrument

Just from personal experience. I'm sure some women would never want a man to pay on a date, but for me it would represent a good quality in them.

And yes I would certainly help my husband in a time of financial need if I could.... its just that statistically men earn more than women, they are less likely to be financially effected by the birth of a child, they are less likely to give up their careers to care for a child because they are likely to be earning more than their partners so that makes sense.....

You cant deny these things with simple idealism. You are much more likely as a woman to need the financial support of a man than he is to need it from you.... and so demonstrations that he is willing and able to pay for things is a good sign if you are considering a long term relationship with someone.

If you are a female high earner then that doesn't really apply..... but you are in a minority because statistically men earn a hell of a lot more than women in this country.

Not the way it should be and I hope that changes in the future.... but right now.... I think its a good sign for you if you are with a man who seems happy to pay on a date.

Excellent post and so very true. Just ignore the naysayers on this thread, they are talking tosh. I wouldn't even waste my time arguing with such nonsense to be honest.

I can't be arsed to feed them any longer.

I'm out.

@siwel123

It seems to be that MEN think they can cherry pick what parts of equality they want and not the others. Which is a shame.

Corrected that for you HUN.

See ya!

Here's a thread from today, that disproves the "if he pays on the first date, everything is going to be honky dory." myth.

Page 7, right at the bottom.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3250800-To-not-pay-for-the-present?msgid=77907768

A sh*t relationship with a guy is not based on whether he pays for the first or subsequent dates.

The pay gap needs to be like for like roles not a cleaner and a pilot compared. Or a software engineer and a barber.

I prefer to call it an earnings gap.

And you are right, it is absurd not to compare like for like roles when trying to determine if there discrimination in at play. I recall Ryanair recently were criticised for having the biggest % pay gap while those same critics ignore the fact that most of the pilots and ground engineers were men and most of the cabin crew were women. They were then criticised for not employing more women pilots at which stage they had to point out that very few women were qualifying as pilots let alone actually applying to work for Ryanair.

Thing is SOMEONE has to do the lower paid jobs you know and ppl in low paid jobs work just as hard.

Yes yes but there is no reason why women have to make the (bad) choice to do low value work. And you can’t blame your date for your earlier choice to go down that path!

The Dorchester Hotel grooming rules for female staff.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/02/dorchester-hotel-could-be-sued-over-grooming-rules-for-female-staff

Furano how would childcare providers and the people who use them cope if all their workers took your advice.

"Why parents should fear childcare going the way of Carillion"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/14/parents-carillion-childcare-collapse-nursery-provider

"What’s happened in the older care market should provide a cautionary tale. There has been a similar shift from the public to the private sector, and private equity has become an increasingly important player. Private equity funds have bought up large chains of care homes, and loaded them up with unsustainable debt. This led to the collapse of Southern Cross back in 2011, and more recently left Four Seasons on the brink of breakdown.

We haven’t yet seen the collapse of a major nursery provider here. Other countries have. In Australia, ABC Learning – then one of the world’s largest private childcare providers – went into liquidation back in 2008 as a result of burdening itself with debt while chasing aggressive expansion. It was simply too big to fail: the Australian government had to provide a bailout of millions to keep the nurseries running until new buyers took over.

Many of the big nursery chains operating here in the UK have ambitious expansion plans, which involve buying out and refinancing smaller nurseries. For example, Busy Bees has been involved in takeover and consolidation bids in Australia, Singapore and the Netherlands. It is also trying to attract Chinese investors and is launching a chain of nurseries in China"

And I have noticed the most angry and vitriolic posts on this thread are from men

And by some distance you are the most angry, vitriolic and abusive person on this thread.

Most people here have managed to have a civilised conversation even if they don't agree.

Been happily married ten years thanks, we pool our respective incomes into a joint accounts and enjoy life. No calculators when we go out for dinner.

Guess what, on our first date she bought the first round, not because I made her, more a case of her getting to the bar first! Being the funny, considerate, thoughtful and intelligent women that she is she didn't project a lifetime of outcomes or supposed 'red flag' personality traits over that one act.

@HelenaDove well hopefully the market would adjust and childcare providers would be paid consummately for the valuable job they do.

@HelenaDove you raise a really interesting point re private equity and social/health/childcare.

There has been a massive boom and equity prices for health/social/child care are super super peak. GP surgaries, dental practices, the works.

I can’t see anything good from having vast swathes of ‘care’ operates by PE houses.

Helenadove I'm glad you wrote this

Another good example of sexism is that New Look have been charging more for their plus size ranges.

Why shouldn't a shop charge more for something that costs more to produce? (Material). Drawing the line at size 16 is fairly arbitrary but it makes sense to do it somewhere.

Yes because thats exactly what has happened with care homes...............oh wait.

You want to blame ppl mainly women in low paid work? a. thats not feminism

b.I think with the way things have gone with care homes you should be careful what you wish for!

Bye Helena. I love the ethos is Mumsnet is a parents website but it seems as a male poster I'm hated on this thread.

It is also you picking what parts of feminism you want. You want a male to pay because he is a man. How is they equal?
Anyone in going as I feel I have my opinion across clearly but apparently as a man who has had bad experiences dating? and is a penny pincher it isn't valid

Well shiny in that case a size 10 should cost more than a size 6 and mens stores should do it too.

I speak as someone who has lost ten stone taking me from a size 28 down to a 12/14.

siwel i have said right from page fucking 1 that i would be happy to pay half and that i would sacrifice part of my grooming routine to do so.

You do realise gaslighting doesnt work when the written word is present cos posters can go back and check.

I suspect your problem is more to do with being faced with the compromises low income women have to make.

I know you did. Never said you didnt.
Also the compromise Leo income men make? Anyway I'm off as my opinion as a male here clearly isn't valid.

YOU JUST FUCKING SAID SO HERE

siwel123 Wed 16-May-18 14:42:55

"Bye Helena. I love the ethos is Mumsnet is a parents website but it seems as a male poster I'm hated on this thread.

It is also you picking what parts of feminism you want. You want a male to pay because he is a man. How is they equal"