To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

It’s not a great return on investment.

siwel but that neglects to look at the statistics about age differences and the times people are having kids. Women tend to be younger than men when they have children. Therefor they are going to be earning less even if they have been just as dedicated to education and career.

@siwel
True, but Paloma was generalizing (incorrectly imo), where Harry's comment was personal and designed to sting.

And for the record 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Furano that is a massively over simplified argument. Its difficult, time consuming and stressful to bring up children which is why people actually get paid for it unless they are their own!
What you are saying is that money is the priority which I think is a sad way of looking at things.
Its sad people have to pay someone else to take care of their children whilst they themselves are paid to take care of someone elses children in order for it to be of any apparent value to you....

How is it having a greater impact to look after someone elses children? It surely makes no difference other than money exchanging hands? Neither situation is more 'worthy' than the other. They are both valuable.
Dont dress up sheer pursuit of money as something amazingly worthy.

I knowing doesn't follow the statistics. However I want equality and for women to be ewual. But we have to also make it equal for everyone

First of all, I am not a "decorative accessory" . I mentioned jokingly that I've had forehead Botox a few times. So what? All my friends do and even women in their 20s have it. It's very minimal.
Furano - I did used to work with children as a matter of fact which is exactly why I think it's important to focus on my own. I have 2 degrees. I might be just a housewife, but I'm not so stupid that I would put myself, or more importantly my children, in a potentially precarious position, financially speaking, even if my marriage did fall apart. I have been with my husband 15 years and we are normal people.

Whoever chooses the venue and does the inviting for the first date should pay. However the person invited on the date should offer to go halves if they can afford it and especially if they don't want another date.

If they do want another date then they can choose and pay on that one.

Anyone who gets a calculator out and starts itemising who had what on a date can do one. YANBU OP that is a definite passion killer.

How is it having a greater impact to look after someone elses children? It surely makes no difference other than money exchanging hands

I didn’t mean monetary return on investment.

I mean you can have a much greater positive impact on many more lives if you work professionally with children, rather than just bringing up a couple of your own.

@Pa1oma glad to hear you’ve got a back up plan and could support yourself if needed.

No one ever thinks their relationship is going to fail but statistics show an awful lot so, and it’s usually the women who ends up worse off afterwards.

"I did a lot of asking in my heyday. Sometimes it pulled off sometimes it didn't. For those ladies that never did it, do you know how much the fear rejection costs? A lot more than a leg wax. self esteem is priceless"

Ah Well Faultymain..... im off for my regular facial wax later. Im sure they will accept my priceless self esteem as payment instead of my cash

a. what a patronizing thing to say to people on lower incomes.

b. and making that comment shows that you have a problem with what ive said on this thread despite me making it clear i would be happy to pay half.

@Furano. I have to slightly disagree. Financially usually the women struggle. But rights to kids they normally win as they get more.

I've never expected a guy to pay for me.

I always offer to pay all or go halves.

However I've always had dates where guys have refused to let me pay.

"There is no reason before having children for a woman to earn less than her partner. If you chose a lower paid career, or didn’t work as hard as your partner in the early child free years, or had a lack of ambition, more fool you."

Thing is SOMEONE has to do the lower paid jobs you know and ppl in low paid jobs work just as hard..Like care workers and childcare workers (the ones who look after your kids while you are out working for a higher wage) Interesting that you dont see these as jobs of worth.

Feminism my arse!

A massive, utterly irrational, goes-utterly-against-most-of-my-largely-feminist-principles, turn off!!

Well, of course you're not a feminist. To insist that you are is simply disingenuous.

You thought he should pay for you, because he's a man and that reason alone.

Some women make me cringe. They really do want it all ways ...

Yes, "a cheat is a cheat" to some extent. But someone who doesn't bring anything in to a relationship other than looking pretty will attract the sort of man who is only interested in physical attraction. When Melania gets old, I doubt Trump will stick around. That was clearly a marriage of money v beauty, and superficial all round.
If I was a man, I'd be really put off by a woman who didn't want to pay half, as it would just scream gold digger. Even a lot of high earning men now are attracted to independent women, as a woman who won't pay for her meal might be a sign that she won't pull her weight and go to work when she marries, and will want to be one of those women who stays at home even when their children are at uni, and who also demand cleaners and nannies even though they don't work. Why would any man want to be saddled with someone like that??

Two tables for one please alongside one another so we can chat but pay our own bill! Sorted.

Saying that the person who asks should pay is another way of saying the man should always pay because, let’s face it, men do 90% of the asking out.

It’s also a way of saying youll take the good bits equality brings but not the bad.

Precisely. It is sexist to say a man should pay because he is a man.
You can't choose which bits of equality you want, you either want to be equal or you Don't.

I'm left wondering if those women who believe that men should pay on a first date are as happy with that concept if they know, from how that first date goes, that there won't be a 2nd date?

I mean I can see the idea that if you go out on a few dates it can even itself out but if there is no spark and they have no wish to see him again do they feel entitled to a free meal for gracing the man with their company/putting up with his company?

siwel is there a gender pay gap where you work Do you speak up when you see or hear about these kinds of inequalities.

*Thing is SOMEONE has to do the lower paid jobs you know and ppl in low paid jobs work just as hard..Like care workers and childcare workers (the ones who look after your kids while you are out working for a higher wage) Interesting that you dont see these as jobs of worth.

Feminism my arse!*

Are you assuming that only women take on low paid work?

No there isn't a gender pay gap. If people do the same job they get paid the same.

I also want to clarify when I say gender pay gap I mean a gap between people doing the same job. Jot a pay gap say between a male cleaner and a female ceo.

Of course not Not only women but it is mostly women.

HelenaDove

A gender pay gap or an earnings gap? There is a big difference.