To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

Ironically Triangle I did have a kid with a controlling abusive arsehole. My ex. Who insisted on paying for everything. Who assumed I would give up work and be a sahm( I did) for our dd. Who never changed a nappy, or got up in the night or looked after his own dd alone EVER or lifted a finger around the house as he surmised that his job was paying for things, He'd done his bit. Our experiences are obviously very different and have led us to opposite beliefs! I now have a dp who 50/50 everything when dating and now in a ltr with dc he also 50/50 night wakings, household chores etc. I couldn't disagree with you more.

Just from personal experience. Im sure some women would never want a man to pay on a date, but for me it would represent a good quality in them.
And yes I would certainly help my husband in a time of financial need if I could.... its just that statistically men earn more than women, they are less likely to be financially effected by the birth of a child, they are less likely to give up their careers to care for a child because they are likely to be earning more than their partners so that makes sense.....

You cant deny these things with simple idealism. You are much more likely as a woman to need the financial support of a man than he is to need it from you.... and so demonstrations that he is willing and able to pay for things is a good sign if you are considering a long term relationship with someone.
If you are a female high earner then that doesnt really apply..... but you are in a minority because statistically men earn a hell of alot more than women in this country.

Not the way it should be and I hope that changes in the future.... but right now.... I think its a good sign for you if you are with a man who seems happy to pay on a date.

Yes but I believe that financial support should only be given when actually needed.... not on the first date "just incase you get pregnant one day and your earnings go down". What a fucking ridiculous idea!

siwel - I'm not disagreeing with you, but your family is organised the way it is because it reflects your particular personality and your wife's. All couples are different. My husband's view is that children are best with their mothers and it's his responsibility to provide for that.

Honestly I can't believe what is being said.

Well hope your happy paloma. But that attitude is so 1950s.

me neither siwel. Suddenlynunderstand why feminism is faltering

baubletrouble im sorry that happened to you. I guess we all just go by our own experience.
I had an ex who was extremely weird about money. Despite living together and him earning more than me he would split everything down to the penny via receipts including petrol for activities we did together (so he would have been going to anyway) i mean down to the actual penny. And he kept a folder of this stuff. It bled into how he was generally... would not speak to me for days if some small thing made him think I was taking advantage (such as not seeming grateful enough to him when he fixed my laptop)

I just get the fear when I think what would have happened if it had been him with whom I had gotten pregnant.....

triangle i guess arseholes come in all shapes and sizes. Glad hes an ex!

Whoever did the asking should offer to pay, otherwise you've caused someone expense.

That said, if you don't like the person, and don't want another date, then you should pay half.

If you do like them, then you accept gratefully and say, 'Well, I'll get it next time - that means we have to do it again.'

baubletrouble its not so ridiculous when it actually happens to you though.... and I see so many threads on here from women for whom that actually happened. Its a reality of life sadly... until women are earning as much as men... until their working rights are as protected as mens (try having a baby unexpectedly on a zero hours contract with a difficult pregnancy) this is sadly something you need to actually think about.

If a man asked me out (!!!) I'd hope he'd pay. If I asked him out, vice versa. If it were sort of mutually agreed, as in "Shall we...?" rather than an outright question, then splitting the bill would be appropriate.

If, however, someone asked me out and then started bill splitting... no. As others have noted, this sets the tone for any relationship to come. I have a single friend who is a great personality, great fun... but he is very, very careful (and he is quite comfortably off). Someone who goes half on Prezzo meals and then produces his own voucher and who turns up to dinners clutching the cheapest wine Aldi sells is giving a clue about what their financial ethos is.

So Triangle, I'm assuming that if two people are dating who are not interested in having children, for example two divorced people in their 60's, then you think it would be fine to split the bill??

Do you really, honestly think of how good a provider a man is going to be if you have children ON THE FIRST DATE???? If so, that's a bit frightening. Surely a first date is just a casual meet to see if there is any spark?? As the relationship progresses, you can see if there are huge differences in earnings, and then the higher earner might offer to pay for slightly more of the meals out?

I'm also interested in how the people who don't believe in splitting the bill raise their children - if you had a son and daughter of dating age, would you raise your son to pay for everything when he goes out with a girl and your daughter to expect to be paid for?

Paloma, as a non-working person with a cleaner who comes several days a week and you spend thousands on beauty treatments all funded by husband, you've clearly landed a big fish. Fair enough if it works for you to be a decorative trophy wife, but if your only contribution is your artificially-enhanced looks, then aren't you worried about what will happen when you get old? Some men want the latest trophy and not an old one.

And yes I would certainly help my husband in a time of financial need if I could.... its just that statistically men earn more than women, they are less likely to be financially effected by the birth of a child, they are less likely to give up their careers to care for a child because they are likely to be earning more than their partners so that makes sense...

There is no reason before having children for a woman to earn less than her partner. If you chose a lower paid career, or didn’t work as hard as your partner in the early child free years, or had a lack of ambition, more fool you.

Going from this thread loads of women give up any ambition and just want a man to pay for dinner and any future children. How limited your horizons are.

I also don't get why bill splitting equates with quibbling over pennies...the bill comes to £55, someone puts in 25, someone puts in 30, depending on who has what notes in their purse!

It's not 1950s, it's 2018. Should I run out and get a job and leave my kids with a nanny just to make a point?
I should also say I'm not British and DH also has a different cultural background, but even if we were both British I don't see what is so shocking to you.

Paloma needs to watch out her big fish husband doesn’t land himself a younger, prettier new woman who doesn’t need to spend so much on beauty treatments...

If you put ourself in the position of being an accessory you put yourself at risk.

harshbuttrue Different people will be in different circumstances wont they? I certainly dont think men 'should' always pay for the first date, as I said in my first post.... I was merely detailing why I, personally would consider it to be a very good sign and it would be something I liked.

I dont think anyone should 'expect' to be paid for and I have never been on a date where I did not have the money to pay for my half as I dont 'expect' men to offer to pay. I was just saying that I would consider it a good sign and be more keen about the relationship if they did.... because it implies generosity and a relaxed attitude about money.

Maybe this is why I stopped looking for a life partner but surprised myself by actually finding someone who doesn't have all this men's work/women's work crap in their head.
My dad was ex-services - you did chores to make other stuff go mire easily: laundry/cooking etc wasn't "women's work". I've genuinely never dated anyone who thought that way. I may have met people like this but nobody I'm close to has this attitude.

Furano
Think its pretty disrespectful to call some womens choice to focus on bringing up children a 'lack of ambition'.
Some one has to bring up children, think thats actually a pretty important and valuable thing to be doing. Even if it may not be what you think is important.

Furano - if he wants to find himself a younger, prettier model he will do that regardless. A cheat is a cheat. Why bring that up anyway?

@harshbuttrue1980
Fair enough if it works for you to be a decorative trophy wife,

Ouch, I don't think that's necessary. I don't agree with her, but still...

Triangle. But before kids it is a lack of ambition as was said. Before kids there's no reason women can be higher earners. And same after kids it is up to them.

@thetriangleisarealinstrument because it is a lack of ambition career wise, and it can only be facilitated by someone else going to work more than they would have had to otherwise, and missing out on time with their children.

If bringing up children is indeed your life ambition, you could do a lot more than just bring up a couple of your own. That’s one person entirely devoted to two or three children. It a great return on investment.

You could work in a childcare setting and have a greater impact, or foster... fostering would be much more fulfilling if you really did care about children in the general sense.

However what most people really mean by wanting to devote themselves to their children... is that they want an easy life with minimal demands on their time and low stress levels. Which is fine, but don’t dress it up as something amazingly worthy.

Well paloma has been insulting men too calling then penny punches etc etc. So the other poster is is it being equal and dongnbthe same.