To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

How is it tight not to pay for someone else to have a drink or food?
I think it is tight to expect someone to pay for you regardless of income, unless you're seriously going out / a couple or are close friends.

Helena, your post made me think - when I add up all I've spent on personal care over the years, it would be ridiculous. All DH has had to buy is an electric razor and toothpaste! I've had total body hair removal (1000s), Botox twice a year, haircuts (and now colouring), nails, make-up, moisturisers, serums - the lot! Not to mention 3 children with two year intervals between them, so eight years before they were all in school and I was home with them during this time and beyond. So no, things are hardly "equal" and I don't feel too sorry for men at all in the scheme of things.

@HelenaDove. I would love to smash that archaic tradition too.
The reason i wasn't a SAHD was i earned more then my partner so it would have been a struggle to survive on her income when we could be comfortable on mine.

@Pa1oma. Well for starts you choose to have all those beauty treatments. .
Most people go for haircuts male and female. However you chose botox etc.

Here's the thing...

If someone says "Let me take you out/would you like to go out to dinner" then the assumption is they'll pay.

If someone says "Do you want to go out for dinner?" then the assumption is you're going to split it.

Buy a drink is one thing. But buying the whole dinner OP? Get a life. And some self respect

True, sewel, but Botox is fairly standard now and if it's not that it's something else. Also I have had non- invasive lipo after my third child, I forgot that. And Invisalign teeth-straightening and whitening.

@RomeoBunny thank you for your lovely advice. I have a lovely life already. Thank you so much for your kind words.

can i ask, if i said i expect a women to cook me a meal on our second date, and she must pay for all the ingredients and the drink i have what would they say?

So apart from the added labour, your asking a guy the same thing.

@Pa1oma I see your point.

Personally I do think that's quite a lot of beauty!! But I'm not really into that stuff. But yes I think there's a big section of male population who expects this. It's not a section I'd want to engage with though...

@Paloma.
I resspect your choice and understand you may have needed some procedures. But it did tick me off, you saying you spend a lot more money in looking good, so a guy should spend money on buying you the meal, when you buying stuff to look good is in effect your own choice.

However i do agree there's no equality as of yet and it needs to change, and i agree this is a small drop in the eqaulity bubble but it still needs discussing as sexism can happen both ways.

Nothing up with splitting the bill, but calculating down to the penny IS a turn off... I don’t know anyone IRL who would disagree with that. It shows that he’s tight, and there’s no bigger turn off than a tight arse IMO.

Siwel yes if I'd invited someone over to my house for a meal, of course I'd pay for all ingredients. Key word here is 'invite'

I get a cut and colour every six weeks The alternative is going grey.

So ive had to forego leg waxes because i cant afford both.

But when i hit 40 i got an extra birthday present ...........chin hair Which has to be waxed off so ive had to factor that in as well.

Botox is not for me and i couldnt afford it anyway.

But as ive said i wouldnt mind paying my half on a date at all.

Ive always dated and been with much older men. And before anyone says that im a gold digger they were a hospital porter care worker and delivery driver. Its just a preference and the fact they are a little less shallow about things like body hair is a bonus and one of the reasons for my preference.

Of course it's my choice and Im not equating this to paying for dates anyway. I'm just saying that it's useless to pretend there aren't still different expectations for men and women because it's very evident to me that there are.

@PanGalaticGargleBlaster I love your insight. Spot on.

When I was a student I went on a date to a little bistro with someone 10 years older than me. He paid the 20£ or so bill and when I offered said "you get the next one". We then went to a fancy bar where he ordered a bottle of expensive champagne, talked for 1 hour about how much money he made (I made it clear I was a struggling student), and I had to pay for the champagne.

Anyway, the first day payment thing is a signifier. It signals whether or not someone is compatible with you in a financial outlook type of way. There is no "wrong" or "right" opinion to have, despite what some of the more aggressive posters on MN will have you believe. Some women see men who do offer or insist as overbearing or not seeing them as equals. Some women see the men who offer or insist as traditional and caring. It depends entirely on your personal preference. I like a man to pay on the first date because I am traditional, and would like to be with someone like-minded. However, I would always take enough money to pay for myself, and offer to do so (even when the guy has taken the piss as above). I am flabbergasted by women who don't bring any money and just EXPECT the man to pay. That's not alright.

Yes there's expectations. Which need to be destroyed. This is one.

@crispysausagerolls. I get where you're coming from and 100% agree people should bring money with them. I also respect that people have different opinions to me.
It just annoys me it is seen as traditional and that tradition is seen as a good thing. There are a lot of traditions that are and were wrong and I think expecting someone to pay for you because of their sex is wrong.

Why is it "wrong" though Sitwell, as long as both people are happy with it. By the way, I would never go out with no money - that's crazy. But I guess DH and I are fairly traditional in the way we"ve related to each other over the last 15 years. I always knew that, despite my career, if I had DC I would prefer to be home with them. DH thinks this is preferable too. He's more comfortable with his contribution as financial provider and has a clear sense of this. What does it matter how people live as long as it works for them? We are equal, but different and both honest and secure about that. You don't need to be 50/50 and trying to match each other all the time to have balance. Just do what comes naturally to you.

no one wants to date a tight arse

I imagine you consider yourself exempt from that description?

I think in my opinion I think it is sexist to automatically assume a man will pay my for you.
I don't think it is wrong for couples Ord friends to family to treat each other and pay for each other. But the question is about a first date.
And I think it is wrong that someone is expected to pay just because they're a man on the first date.

I think its more about the gesture of offering, rather than the uptake of the offer.

I did a lot of online dating and would always offer to pay half and quite often insisted because to me it meant that there could be no feeling beholden to the other re. a second date or anything else!

Its also a first date so I wouldnt have wanted to have come across as a scrounger who expected to be paid for. I have been on a good few dates where I have been asked out to places way out of my price range- and learned to be blunt and just say 'Im sorry I cannot afford to go to that place! How do you feel about fish and chips and a walk on the beach instead?'. Those dates IME tend to be more fun anyway.

Throwing chips at seagulls can be a massive icebreaker (seagulls are funny)- and even though I am now happily not dating, there are a good few guys I am still friends with years later through seagull dating.

@Bannanas.
I agree if the guy offers and insists then you're ok to accept. But don't just presume and expect they should.

I like your idea to, if the guy offers something that is to expensive. Just suggest somewhere you can afford a 50.50 split.

I’ve got as far as page 5 and I can’t bear to read any more.

Some posters are conflating the simple issue of whether it’s reasonable to expect a man to pay on a first date as a matter of course with the notion of someone (and for this the sex of the person is irrelevant) totting up every item to calculate how much each should pay.

On the first issue many on here who think of themselves as feminists might want to do a bit more reading up on the subject. I’m genuinely staggered at reading this rubbish in 2018.

You pay for what you have had to eat and drink. End of. This except I add a tip too if earned.
I don't understand why it is considered tight to pay for what you ordered but it isn't considered tight to expect someone to either pay the full bill or subsidise your bill.

In my personal experience it is always the individuals who order expensive meals and drinks who have a problem with paying their share. Don't seem to have a problem with leaving others out of pocket though! Not everyone can afford to do that, being poor isn't a moral failing.