To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

I havent had a night out for a long time but it does also muddy the waters that im teetotal.

So Pa1oma, the man should have to pay more just because he has a penis?? That's a bit of an odd view to have nowadays when lots of women are independent. What should a woman do in return then?? Is she obliged to cook and wash up on the next date while the man sits back and reads the paper?? Stuff that for a game of soldiers. Or does she not bother doing anything in return and just hold her hand out in neediness?? If you're gorgeous that might work, if you're Melania looking for a Donald, but in the real world, most men don't see themselves as a bank account.

Not all women are low earners, many have careers and a decent work ethic.

Not sure why it's respectful for men to pay yet not the other way around. Maybe I missed the time travel back seventy years.

Whoever asks, man or woman, should then pay. Especially if they 'pursued' the other and chose the restaurant.

I'd always offer to pay half. If I didn't do the asking and this was rebuffed I wouldn't insist to be honest but I'd make sure I got some drinks in and paid the next time.

It's all about being a generous person! If I go for coffee with friends we often take in turns to pay the bill.

You can turn this in to a feminist debate. It isn't. He has shown his character and I'm sorry but he's tight. I wouldn't be going on a second date. If you asked him out then you should have paid. But you didn't.

"It's all about being a generous person! If I go for coffee with friends we often take in turns to pay the bill"

THIS one of my close friends likes her vodka and we always take it in turns Doesnt bother me...............shes a great friend

low earners have a decent work ethic Boxsets Care workers work damn hard and so do childcarers

Cant wait for some to put their money where their mouths are when childcare gets privatised.

If we’re relating it to friends....most of my friends are like me, we take turns paying or split evenly, but this one woman is one of those who will nitpick over every penny and it’s pointless meeting her for coffee or a drink as she will sit there with no drink in front of her, rather than spend anything! Yes she pays for what she consumes, but Would I want to date the male version of her? No way! Any kind of nitpicking over a bill is a turn off.

Exactly, nitpicking over the bill whether man or woman is so off putting.

It would be a deal breaker for be if I went on a date where a man got their phone out to calculate what we each owed. I wouldn't even want to be friends with someone who did that, it's just tight and pedantic.

If a date suggested splitting 50 50 I'd be ok with it but I would wonder whether they were that in to me, or were doing a lot of dating so therefore couldn't afford to keep buying women dinner.

Maybe it's old fashioned but if someone was into me I'd expect them to offer to pay, which I'd then refuse.

Christ not this again, this topic rears it’s head every few months on here. Still it’s always amusing to see the mental acrobats performed by some to justify not opening their purse on a date. It’s even more amusing to see the irony and total lack of awareness from those same people calling a man ‘tight’.

If I go out with friends I'll usually get the whole thing or we take it in turns. I hate nit-picking over bills full stop. But a date is different to going out with your friends.
I guess it might be different if you've met online and he hasn't asked you out in person. If you don't like him you can just put down the money and run! But I never did online dating so I wouldn't know. I never asked a man on a date either, I don't think. If you have to ask them, it's going to be hard work from there on in, most probably and I think most men like to feel as if they're taking you out, not the other way round. DH for one, would have found that awkward.

I’ve never been for dinner on a first date and could never quite understand the appeal, to be honest! I know it’s such a normal thing and loads of people do it but it just sounds like my worst nightmare, having dinner with someone I barely know (and that’s even before the awkwardness over splitting the bill!)

All my first dates have just been going for a drink. I think on all of them, the guy bought the first round (someone has to go first, I guess) but then I’d always insist on buying the next one. I only ever had one guy refuse to let me buy a round and to be honest I found that a massive turn-off! It was like he was horrified and emasculated at the thought of a woman buying him a beer.

Oh my god!! 230-odd replies since I last looked. Christ! Thanks to the many insightful views /comments, but man, you lot can be sooo unpleasant. Be fucking nicer, especially to your own sex FFS!! It costs nothing & it helps the sisterhood.

One thing really stood out for me reading through all the responses however and that is @Luisa27 (I think it was you!!!) who said;

Are there as many men going halves on childcare as there is going halves on dates?

Bingo!! Bloody bingo!!

Essentially I am taking out on the first date (no there was not a second to those who asked!) my resentment from the treatment I receive from my ex, F of my DS, who has never contributed anywhere near half towards the cost of childcare etc.

So in summary;

• I think we're just post-topping point where it's now normal / expected to go 50:50 with dates
• However I'm (with many others I reckon) stuck living with the ugly impact of previous 'generation' of outdated patriarchy on one front, whilst apparently needing to subsidise the new feminist patriarchy (news flash - we're still in a fucking patriarchy despite some women out earning some men!) on another front.

namechanger that wasnt Luisa That was me.

@HelenaDove indeed it was! Apologies!

Here is the post.

HelenaDove Tue 15-May-18 00:14:57

But a lot of men have double standards when it comes to feminism too and will only embrace the bits that suits them.

Are there as many men going halves on childcare as there is going halves on dates?

Look at the recent thread where a woman got told she should shave for her husband.

And if a man would recoil at a bit of body hair on a woman while eager to go halves on a date...........hes not doing it because he believes in equality and feminism is he

Hes only embracing the part which suits his wallet.

Im not single so not dating (thank God) but there are many women on low incomes who would have to forego something else so they could afford to pay half.

No worries namechanger.

I'm pretty old, op. Old enough to be the Mum (even grandma) of most on here. It's pretty horrifying to me that anyone even thinks about someone paying for them. Maybe when you were in a settled relationship, you treat the other person from time to time.

I think it should be 50.50.

Let's apply some peoples logic here.
It is a tradition to do this = It was also a tardition for women to have no right to vote, it was traidition for most women to stay at home etc.

It is an archaic tradition that requires someone to do something because of their sex. I understand that him penny counting would be annoying and if i was dating someone that would grind my gears but someone splitting a bill roughly equal is fair.

wow i spelt tradition so wrong, so many times

@HelenaDove.
There's also men who would struggle to pay half, how panicky do they get when they realise a women could expect them to pay in full, just to get a second date?

siwel actually in a way that makes it easier because they can both pick somewhere cheaper to go.

As for the disparity in income, a decent boyfriend/girlfriend recognises that and agrees a date accordingly without fuss. In the 50s, my very wealthy now auntie, did this with my impoverished uncle. It's not that new a concept.

I'm with you all the way ... it's good manners for the man to pay on a first date .. no one wants to date a tight arse !!! ... plus ... if he didn't want to pay .. invite you for a coffee or a quick drink instead

Women doing all the childcare is an arcaic tradition too but there are nowhere near as many men stepping up to the plate to smash this stereotype? i wonder why?

Its only as ive got older that realize how political my decision to remain childfree by choice is.