To think he should pay on first date???

[namechangerforthis123]

Had a 'frank' discussion with a girlfriend at the w/e who was outraged that I thought a first date should pay for dinner.

I am v independent, decent career, probably generally feminist views on the whole.
He made it v clear he liked me.

But it was such a turn off when he started calculating how much it was each! 

It just was a passion killer; can't explain why!!

Would be interested to hear the MN view on this. Get your flame throwers ready! 

I think if he's asked you on a date then he should pay e.g I want to take you out.
If he's said e.g fancy meeting up next week? Or fancy going for a drink? Then should be 1/2 and 1/2

He also thought the costs of living together should be spilt 50/50 but also included when the woman was earning less

A couple living together unmarried should shoulder 50/50 on the bills regardless of earnings. I'd expect no less.

Given the amount of red flags yet the relationship obviously continued for some time then who paid what for the initial coffee is highly irrelevant in your choice of partners anyway.

"Just because a guy is happy to split the costs of a date is no indicator that he believes in equality"

Exactly!

If anything they are more likely to be entitled and take advantage.

Just a little reminder people as I think some of you “demanding” the woman pay half need reminding:

Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes

Therefore, if a man decides that he would like to take a woman to an expensive restaurant and he earns more than her, or maybe she has needed to pay a babysitter, or has prepared for the date with a manicure/trip to the hairdressers whatever, then it’s not a simple case of a 50/50 split when the bill comes. 20 or 30 years ago, people understood that! They didn’t need it to be spelled out. It’s not “old fashioned” or “anti feminism” it’s common sense!

"A couple living together unmarried should shoulder 50/50 on the bills regardless of earnings. I'd expect no less"

Boxsets why do i get the nasty feeling you would be saying the opposite if the gender pay gap was detrimental to men.

Maybe a future DIL of yours will be posting on the Relationships board in years to come.

HelenaDove Just because a guy is happy to split the costs of a date is no indicator that he believes in equality

That still doesn't mean it's therefore ok to expect the man to pay simply because he's a man. It's not about the man trying to show he believes in equality, it's about the woman refusing go along with archaic ideas about courtship.

Your ex sounds horrendous but I don't see any bits of feminism - cherrypicked or otherwise - in what you describe so I don't see how it relates.

Boxset that was a long time ago. You are coming across as quite abusive

DH and i (not the same bloke) have been together for 26 years

I doubt any offspring of yours will have a marriage that long with your "values" instilled in them.

Men pick the bits of feminism that pay them.

If he were protesting against women getting paid a third less, I'd cough up and go for a second date. But...

Ruffian We split the cost of the first date and he was also insistent this was because he believed in equality for women.

If i had walked away at that point because my fabulous powers of premonition had worked out what he was like (because you obviously think im Mystic Meg) then id be being called a golddigger.

He WAS cherry picking.

He even asked ME to help pick up his nieces and nephews for his brothers party because his brother (whose kids they were) couldnt be arsed to pick them up from his exes because he (the brother) was already getting pissed.

They saw childcare as the womans job Does that sound like equality to you.

Offering to pay and holding it against someone because they accept is unpleasant game playing, as Ilovesooty said.

I do agree but then I'm a lot older than most, it's about being a gentleman, it's about the man showing you're worth x/y/z without frowning that you're not going mental but not necessarily choosing a meal that correlated with a 2 for 1 deal.

I think feminism says we should be independent paying for our half, if not the full meal. I don't agree with this, as I'm old fashioned.

On other dates maybe, but there's something about the first date that I can't really describe, but it's the chivalry.

Helena - So your ex told you on your first date that he believed in equality and thereafter behaved like a complete misogynist arse? Hardly amounts to cherry picking.

Still doesn't relate to the op which is a general question about whether a man should pay or not. I think you're deliberately trying to derail.

The misogyny was drip fed over time like most abusive relationships.

Im not trying to derail at all Dont talk wet.

"Offering to pay and holding it against someone because they accept is unpleasant game playing, as Ilovesooty said"

Well not really because if he really wants me to go halves then that's fair enough. It just tells me he's not my type. Just as there are many other behaviours I would steer clear of.

Storm4star, how are they supposed to work out who earns what on a first date??
For people saying that the man might choose an expensive restaurant, wouldn't you just speak up, in the same way as if a friend suggested meeting in somewhere too expensive? If a friend suggested an expensive restaurant, I'd either go and expect to pay half or else suggest somewhere cheaper, I certainly wouldn't go and expect her to pay. Why should a first date be any different? With a first date, surely you're no more than friends.

I feel sorry for men on average incomes, as they wouldn't be able to afford to date according to some of the people on here.

And I don't get why its OK for a woman to expect the man to pay for a full meal for them both, but stingy for a man to expect the woman to pay half!!

needingamiracle going by a lot of the replies here it seems you're not so old-fashioned after all!

I think a discussion should be had about where to go for the first date and both people decide so you can go to place within both your price ranges.

@harshbuttrue1980 it's confusing but I think both parties want the other to show that they are a generous person.

So women do this by offering to pay half the bill, while men do this by refusing to take it and paying the entire bill.

It's much easier if your first date involves drinks - as long as you don't deliberately go for something expensive when the other person is paying - as you can share the cost of each round.

Should have said take it in turns to buy a round.

@BlueBug45, what I don't get is why a woman showing generosity involves her paying her share, whereas, a man has to take on both shares to show his generosity? I don't see paying for my own share as generous at all, just as what is expected in a society when most people of both genders work. After all, on a first date, they don't have children together, so it isn't as if its always the case that the woman has a lower income

"After all, on a first date, they don't have children together, so it isn't as if its always the case that the woman has a lower income"

Women are more likely to be in jobs like caring for the elderly or childcare which pays less.

Well Harshbuttrue, I think you either get the concept of being a gent or you don't. Quite clearly on here, a lot of women don't!
A man paying the bill has nothing to do with the money or who earns what. Why are we even discussing that? It's simply a gesture, as a man to a woman. It's similar to a man opening the car door for you - it's not as if you any open the door fgs, but it's a gesture and it's respectful. Or putting some thought into the date, making sure you get home safely etc etc - it's alll part and parcel of the same thing. I'm not really sure why this even needs explaining to be honest.

@harshbuttrue1980 because we live in a sexist society where men tend to earn more even if they have children due to the jobs they are pushed towards.

btw It was quickly established after about 2 dates that I, as a woman, earn much more than my dp. So I started to pay more for both of us if we went out and he did more cooking - well he likes cooking and I only do it because it needs to be done.

@HelenaDove, do you think the woman should pay if she earns more than the man then? And how would you find this out? I'm a moderately high earner (comfortable but not megabucks), so I assume that I earn more than some of the people I've dated and less than others. Surely paying half is the best option? Also, its not just about earnings - someone could be a lower earner but living with parents etc. Surely those things only come out later?? And yes, then I think the higher earner often pays a higher proportion when you're in an established relationship. But I think its a bit patronising if every man I go on a date with assumes that I'm a low earner!
Also, between my friends of both genders who like me are in their 30's and in good jobs with no children, there isn't really a difference between the earnings of the men and the women. We could all pay our own share of a meal - and do, when we go out as friends as well as on dates.

Yep Course she should if she earns more.