To not understand why some parents refuse to pay proper maintenance?

[crunchymint]

Yes I know, its because they are arseholes. I know that. But I still don't emotionally understand how someone cares so little about their own children that they refuse to pay maintenance, or pay as little as they can get away with. What this really means is you don't care if your child has everything they need.

So does the child not need a bedroom at their other parent's house then?

Frequency, you see, this is something else I think there is too sides to.
Mums who actively wanted to become SAHPs when together with their partners who suddenly become subservient little flowers who were forced to give up their careers when it all goes wrong.
Not everything is straightforward.

The RP's earning potential is greatly reduced by being the RP and having to be the one who needs to arrange work around childcare options.

This is exactly the point I’ve tried to make to my ex. He sees DS for a few hours on a Saturday so has all week to work. He can work until whatever time he chooses to as he doesn’t have to collect DS from nursery by 6pm. So not only am I spending more by being RP (childcare, food, clothes, nappies etc) I’m limited in the hours I can work. Because of this I’ve had to go into a lower paid position because there were no part time/flexible hours doing my previous job. Meanwhile “the greatest father in the world” works all week, doesn’t declare it and claims JSA and full housing benefit - and still pays not one penny for the child he professes to love so much.

I'm currently on both sides of this fence as I am a receiving parent for DD & a paying parent for DS - essentially what I pay for DS cancels out what I get for DD. However the new CMS have worked out that I have to pay double what I should be due to mistakes on their side we'll ignore for now them having evidence for 4 months & doing fuck all with it.

There is no system that will ever really work for child maintenance for regular people on a basic income such as NMW as if you are the receiving parent it's not enough to cover basic costs but if you are a paying parent it's enough to make you struggle to cover your own basic costs especially when you factor in that to have residential contact you need a larger property & incur travel costs to pick up/drop off as that usually falls to the NRP to facilitate.

I get nothing from my DD's dad. Havent for years.

He'll have her for a week for most of the school holidays, 2 in the summer holidays. But the main bulk of parenting is all down to me.

He doesnt work, so even if I went through CMS, I wouldnt get anything as he hasnt signed on to JSA.

flamingofridays

Again, odd.

He is taking Home more than double what he is giving me and his two children. And on top of that 90% of a very large bonus.

He can work incredibly long hours, he can travel with work, he can do whatever he damn well likes. Other than on 2-4 nights a month (and weekends at that).

So to answer your question (but pretty shocked that you couldn’t work this out for yourself).
I never said I think I should have 50/50. I think the CM calculator should be amended because the % of income is not fair.

He has SO SO much more opportunity to earn and progress. Me? Not so much unless I want to outsource all childcare (and of course suck up the financial implications of that decision)

And just basic maths. Him on his own with £4500 pcm plus whooping annual bonus. Me and his two children £2350 plus 0 bonus. It doesn’t stack up.

feelinggoodinspring In most cases not if ex has re married I know my son wouldn’t as ex has 4 more kids since ds sponging living with the other mother of his children she has a two bedroom flat and most women would bulk at the idea of step child having their own room if only coming twice a month

@NeedsAsockamnesty it certainly wasn't 2003 as ex-H & I separated in 2003 and I had to declare child maintenance when applying for housing benefit & income support.

2003 was when they revamped the CSA system to use a percentage of the NRP's income.

FWIW I loved my job and the thought of being a SAHP sends shudders down my spine. I need adult contact to stay sane. I suffer from depression and the routine of working, contact with other adults and the necessity of having to be groomed and washed etc when working helps keep my depression in check. Sadly, my ex-H loved his beer more than he loved me being able to go back to work and would get pissed while in sole charge of the baby, meaning I was never comfortable working the same hours. He'd often ring my manager, pissed out of his head with some 'emergency' and I'd be sent home unpaid to care for our child (and the ex)

I've talked to him about me going back into hospitality management and him having DD overnight more often but apparently this isn't possible because he has bills to pay and needs to work

I'm now retraining as a hairdresser so I can go freelance. My future earning potential will still be stifled by DD. I won't be able to work late nights or Saturdays aka the busiest times in hairdressing but at least once DD is older I will have a foot in the door.

In most cases not if ex has re married I know my son wouldn’t as ex has 4 more kids since ds sponging living with the other mother of his children she has a two bedroom flat and most women would bulk at the idea of step child having their own room if only coming twice a month

Fair enough, but I don't think that's the case in all families- mine being a good example. My dp has a child with his ex and we have children together. Admittedly his dd doesn't have a room all to herself here, but she shares a lovely room with one of her siblings decorated for both of them. She doesn't just come here twice a month (she's here 3 days a week), so a bedroom is essential for her. I see her as having two homes not just one.

Highhorse1981 Totally agreed I had one child with sn he at that point had no children

This is how worthless he was I said ok then you don’t have a job you look after ds while I go to work first day I was 2 hours late he didn’t answer the door because he was still sleeping had to double back and take ds to my friends house
Never again won’t pay for childcare won’t look after ds himself shocking

feelinggoodinspring I am sure you do but most don’t I can’t see many step mother wanting to factor in an additional bedroom for a child who visits two nights a week if that

I see not all step mothers condone fucktards my sister being one they pay 700 pm for dss plus have him all holidays Thursday thu Monday and he moved in full time last year he always had his own room and they still give the mother 150 even though he doesn’t live their

Why because he still has 3 other siblings not the same dad but they don’t bother and they still need to eat

I’m loving everyone on here bragging how their DH pays more than what the CSA say they have to.
I mean, good and all, but it’s not really anything to brag about.
As has been said, CSA amount is pitiful.

Maybe they never wanted the child in the first place?
Lets face it, contraception is mostly geared towards women, men actually only get 1 option (excluding the permanent operation of a vasectomy) the condom. A lot of men find them uncomfortable, that they drastically reduce feeling, and so really dislike them. That is a valid way to feel, but women tear them to pieces for it. Women on the other hand, get so many more choices. Pill, patch, shot, implant, IUD, copper IUD, sponge, cap, female condom. Possibly others i've forgotten. Yes, many of them are hormonal, BUT there are more than 1 none hormonal option, and even the hormonal ones, the pill especially, there are so many different formulations theres usually one that suits a woman if you persevere to trying them out. If a woman states she hates the pill, or doesn't want an IUD etc, it is considered HER body, HER choice, it's totally acceptable for her to refuse any and all female contraceptive methods because she doesn't like them, and insist on the male condom, but if a man does the same with his only option (the condom) and wants the woman to use a female contraceptive, hes the bad guy?

And 98% effective is with perfect use, condoms are rarely used that way so the actual failure rate is much higher.

If an accidental pregnancy happens, then its out of the males hands and 100% up to the female whether or not to progress a pregnancy. You can literally force a man to be a father when he never wanted to be, and to expect him to pay for the privilege, is wrong imo. If you know a man doesn't want a kid and you choose not to abort, you should take on 100% of the financial responsibility.

Even planned pregnancy, people can realise afterwards it was a mistake and a child isn't what they expected and is no longer what they want. Unfortunately it's not like you can give up a child like you can a pet, its a commitment you cannot go back on, and in some cases, this leads to the person trying to distance themselves as much as possible.

Their standard bills are also possibly higher once they move out as they arent being split between 2. They have full responsibility for all bills, and lets face it nobody wants to just exist, making just enough to cover outgoings with nothing left over for fun or leisure. CMS don't take bills in to account, they just go off a percentage of wages, and it can leave the NRP with nothing extra, or unable to cover all their other bills since it is deducted first.

Some may have the mentality of they aren't with the child so why is it their responsibility, or begrudge you get benefits etc, or even just hate the mother enough to want to punish them.

As for women who actively support their partner paying bare minimum, does anyone ever really want the baggage of kids from a previous relationship? Some will take it on because they love the man, but they will surely dislike money from their household going to some other woman for the kids, taking away from their own disposable income, or meaning she has to pay a higher percentage of the bills instead of 50-50 as he can't afford it after maintenance. Shes bound to want her life as minimally financially impacted as possible, especially if she is wanting/has her own children.

Kids just arent everyones top priority or want in life.

But I support my DH not paying, because in his specific case, his ex made him spend a fortune to try to see his own children. Revenge? Certainly, the same as a lot of pps on here are motivated by revenge, but that's OK if you are the RP, apparently

So, two wrongs make a right?

I have lived the last ten years of no maintenance and general fuckwittery with a ‘think: whiter than white’ motto in everything I do. Never stopped contact, bitten my lip, kept my mouth shut. I have silently screamed and scrimped and saved so my children have opportunities. I have always believed that my ex and his true colours had to be seen by the children themselves because anything else would be meaningless. It has taken 10 years but just recently, it has become very clear that my children understand EVERYTHING. And that EVERYTHING includes the times I have struggled to hide my true feelings in my facial expressions or quiet mumblings.

I am confident I will ‘win’ ( that is, my children will put me in a far better care home than their father!) but your DH....what is he going to say? I couldn’t see you so I thought I’d extract revenge on your mother and not pay maintenance? Is he quite sure they will understand that? Is he quite sure they won’t tell him to do one? Their mother may well have ridden roughshod all over their emotions and relationship with their father, but how are his actions any better? Is he really going to say to them that they didn’t warrant his financial support?

A Relate counsellor told me to love my children more than I hated my ex. It is sound advice.

frequency nobody forced her to do the majority of the childcare. I don't do the majority of the childcare in my house.. I don't want to give up my career so I didnt. I think a lot of women want to stay at home so playing the "I can't further my career because of you" card isn't always accurate.

Almost no its not some sort of given that most women wouldnt want there dp to pay for his kids. Its the thinking of a dirtbag. Anyone who would support that is awful.

Jesus christ poor men right?
So in your world men should be able to just fuck around no worries, pregnancy is her problem?

Not good people. My dad was abusive to staff and avoided paying to the point that they had to arrest his wages and would regularly ask what my mum had spent the money on.

highhorse he works long hours. He earns the money. You dont. You're partly responsible for your kids you know. He's not supposed to fund it all which seems to be what you want.

Flaming are you a single parent? Most of us dont get the choice to not be the main carer.
Even when together and both working full time, alot of the time its still the woman being theain carer.

clearly I'm not if I'm talking about dss living with us....

Maybe you don't get a choice as a single parent (unless you go 50/50) but most people have a choice when in a couple so saying that one partner stopped the other working is mostly bollocks. If they had 2 salaries why not use a nursery if they were so desperate not to give up their career?

Not very bright Thanks! At least I'm not rude.

flamingofridays The point of child support being proportional to income is that the children still enjoy the same quality of life (or as close to as possible) they would if their parents hadn’t split. So if someone is getting a massive bonus and that’s not included in maintenance calculations then that is unfair to the children as presumably if the parents were together they would benefit from that money.

You’re right, it was unnecessarily rude

But I just read your posts on this thread and then did a search to see if you were a single parents and I suppose it just hit me that perhaps that was the reason behind your posts. I think it is. But I shouldn’t have been rude