To think every woman should read Why Does He Do That?

[crunchymint]

Every woman should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. He describes how to recognise abuse, explodes myths around abusive partners, and advises how to get out of an abusive relationship. So a few examples -

So no, men who abuse partners are not more likely to have have had an abusive childhood than men who do not abuse partners.

Men who are controlling and critical and excuse this by saying it is because how their ex partner treated/abused them, are showing that they are abusive men.

You can read it for free here.
unityandstruggle.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

CarysMa I know exactly what you mean, DH and our DC are the only people that I am truly myself with. DH was from a household with narcissistic sociopath parents and grew up being emotionally and verbally abusive. He says he felt the same with me, we both had a ‘mask’ for everyone else, when we met each other it was like those masks had dissolved and we saw each other completely. I didn’t believe in soulmates until I met my DH.

Before meeting DH I was frequently called an ice queen/ unapproachable/ cold or frigid. I was terrified of letting anyone in because I had zero self esteem or confidence. Seeing myself through my DH’s eyes was life changing, he saw me, all of me, the good and the bad and he loved and adored me.

My DH is great at protecting me from the abuse/drain of being pulled into my parents cycle of abuse. He actually called them out on it , saying that as their daughter, having to listen to them both rant about each other is making me ill. He told them that it wasn’t fair to use me as a dump for all of their problems. I felt so grateful and relieved!

This is one of the most depressing threads I've read for a long time on MN. What has happened to this place?

So sorry your thread has been completely derailed, OP. I agree with you, it's an excellent book that I found very useful after I split with my ex.

Thank you to the person who posted the link to the online version of the book. I was desperate to read it as I'd seen it recommended so many times on here (and elsewhere). But because my ex was very financially abusive, I had absolutely no means of purchasing a copy of it, or even having someone post an old copy of it to me (ex 'worked from home' so opened all my mail). I knew it would be helpful to me, but had no way to access it at all. So that link is fantastic for others in the same situation - I've no doubt there's many out there.

Roomba, misogyny is increasing in every avenue, it's so accepted now. People are increasingly intolerant when women want to talk about their own lives.

Caledonian, glad to hear you escaped from that. Me too, but it took me 2 years and needed therapy all the way.

I found the book revolutionary.

Not so much for the analysis of abusive men, and their behaviour - and if anybody who hasn't read it, and is wondering the question "Why does he do that?" is directly answered, it it- it's because he can - but for the assertion that society as a whole is complicit in enabling abusive men.

I find there's very little understanding of the dynamics of abuse in society as a whole, and that when female victims of abuse speak up, they are disbelieved, dismissed, or their concerns are minimised.

Certainly, in my personal experience of abuse, this has been painfully evident- the abuser I'm referring to is the type referred to in the book(sorry, it's been a while since I read the book, I can't remember which one!) who likes to surround himself with women and play them off against each other. I've had quite a lot of flak from various of his female emissaries friends "who can't understand why I won't talk to him". I've had to suffer various acquaintances becoming great friends with him "because he's such a nice guy".

I'm also witnessing a friend going through the same thing- even though she publicly disclosed the abuse, she's been pretty much shut down and shouted over by (mostly female) friends of the couple, who only saw his nice side, whereas she often came over as a bit of a flaky wreck (she had serious anxiety issues, undoubtedly exacerbated by the abuse).

This is why I think everybody- women and men- should read it.

Sorry, my last post should have been Roomba!

That's "The Player" I think stubborn. Mine was a combo of The Demand Man, Mr Right and The Player with occasional input from The Terrorist. The thing with that book is that it actually made me laugh quite a lot too, it was just so on the nail.

some people can't seem to handle the idea that men aren't to blame for everything but this thread is about women?

I think you're right MsGame, and some of the Demand Man, too, IIRC. Trouble is, whenever I get a copy, I give it away to a friend who I think needs to read it!!

Yabu,
I know it’s a well respected book that has helped many , but no, it’s ridiculous to suggest every woman should read it.

I’ve read it. I didn’t care for it

I've just had a look in my copy, it may be The Victim "he often tells heart rending stories about how he was abused by his former partner, sometimes adding the tragic element that she is now restricting or preventing his contact with his children. He manoeuvres the woman into hating his ex partner and may succeed in enlisting her in a campaign of harassment, rumour spreading, or battling for custody".

Same here with the parents ,Caledonian. I once had a psychologist who told me I was the "family dustbin". Have now been NC with them for 20 years. I did find out later that dad had been diagnosed with autism, but that still doesn't mean I have to be the dustbin!

Why can't we talk about ABUSE, regardless of the gender? ... Hysterical much?

Because this thread is about male abuse of females.

We live in a patriarchal society where male abuse of females is not only allowed, it's positively enabled by the social and economic structures of society. Those structures do not work in the same way when females abuse males. So it's not valid to simply assume that the same causes and effects can assumed for both groups and it's perfectly valid to discuss each issue separately.

If there were a thread about cruelty to cats, or donkeys, would you be demanding why we can't discuss all cruelty to all animals? Or would you respect that the subject of this particular cruelty is cats, so STFU about donkeys? Is it just when women's rights are discussed, that you feel the need to wotaboutthemenz, or can you not focus on any group ever?

@crunchymint
Bancroft says that kicking down dynamic is a myth. If someone is abusive, it is not as a result of being abused

I didn't mean kicking down in the sense of perpetuating abuse from generation to generation, I meant it in the sense of abusive people choosing to abuse whoever is lower than them in the pecking order: men abusing women because they're physically stronger and tend to be more financially secure in the relationship, women abusing children because relative to the kids they are stronger and the kids rely on them for other essentials of life, etc. Maybe I should have said pecking order.

Because some women abuse their partners then posters on a website aimed mainly at women can't post a very useful article about domestic abuse of women. Women being statistically more likely to be abused and physically harmed even killed by their male partners.

Staggering isn't it.

Ok, I'm watching you tube explanations on what an AVC is now!

But are they for civil servants? public sector workers only? It says you get tax relief if you pay an AVC out of your pay slip but then it also says it's for civil servants and public sector workers only!? Why would that be?

oops.

ha ha though.

If you escape from an abusive relationship you're probably gonna be financially screwed with no pension.

I am very good at spotting abusive men. I see the warning signs very quickly and easily.

Unfortunately, I picked up that skill from witnessing abusive men very often from a young age and having an unhealthy first marriage when I was 18.

I know that with what I witnessed I could have easily ended up thinking it was normal. I do count myself as being very lucky that I broke the cycle and my children are growing up seeing a healthy marriage. It could have so easily gone the other way.

I think the book is very good and I would like more women to read it too, not always for themselves, but for their friends, family and daughters.

I’ve just skim read the book. Found parts very interesting. I was in an abusive relationship when younger. If I ever talk to friends I had at that time about him they talk about how good he was to me and that he absolutely adored me.
He was so good at portraying the nice guy image to the world.

The NAMALTS are irritating. And depressing.

And I wouldn’t mind, but the issue of male/ female / same sex abuse is addressed in the first couple of pages of the book. pretty much there in the first couple of pages of that link.

Anyhow...

Crime is motive, means and opportunity.

There are just as many areshole women as men, i don’t doubt that for a minute. The problem is that the way our society is structured is that it hands means and opportunity the men more often than the women. And to do more damage with that opportunity.

It's a great book. But it took the Freedom Programme to help me understand I'd been abused in my second marriage as well as my first.

NAMALTs - perhaps if you want to discuss domestic violent perpetuated against men, you could start a thread about that?

Here's a good one. Having therapy with ex, he admitted he'd been hitting me then added "but she makes me hit her". The therapist nodded slowly, thinking, saying "hmmmmm". Then really slowly "she must be a veeeeerrry powerful person to make you hit her"? He went berserk and I tried to keep a straight face

May I just point out to the people claiming NAMALT, the actual cover of the book has the strap line "Inside the minds of Angry and Controlling Men". That statement itself (to me anyway) is actually saying NAMALT, because it is aiming itself directly at the percentage of men who are angry and controlling and how that might pan out in a relationship, and the signs to look for.

IMO it is not saying "all men are angry and controlling".

I have not heard of the book until now, and I must admit I immediately thought Lundy Bancroft was female. I'm not really sure if that is good or bad, me jumping to a conclusion like that.

@onemorning can you elaborate? i'm interested.

I had a relationship a couple of years ago (not the abusive relationship) but I realised that I had fitted in with his agenda completely at the expense of my own, and he had been very kind and loving to be in a superficial way because he knew I needed that after last abusive relationship but he also knew that our ad hoc day to day 'deal' was exactly what he wanted at the expense of me finding what I wanted. He knew he was standing in the doorway so to speak and I didn't recognise it because he was gentle in the way he went about it. I know he was not abusive but it took me this second relationship to realise that I'm entitled not only to be treated well but entitled to have my own agenda.