To think every woman should read Why Does He Do That?

[crunchymint]

Every woman should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. He describes how to recognise abuse, explodes myths around abusive partners, and advises how to get out of an abusive relationship. So a few examples -

So no, men who abuse partners are not more likely to have have had an abusive childhood than men who do not abuse partners.

Men who are controlling and critical and excuse this by saying it is because how their ex partner treated/abused them, are showing that they are abusive men.

You can read it for free here.
unityandstruggle.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

If a man doesn't buy the right presents for Valentine, he will be called abusive on MN. If he dares having an opinion on a haircut or a dress, he will be called abusive with the cringing is he always that controlling?

On the other hand, if anyone mentions men being abuse you are called a "goady fucker".

This forum is not the right place for equality or posters trying to point out that men are "People" and there's no war between men and women.

If a man doesn't buy the right presents for Valentine, he will be called abusive on MN

No. He won’t

If he dares having an opinion on a haircut or a dress, he will be called abusive with the cringing is he always that controlling?

Do you understand context?

The amount of “what about the menz” and NAMALTs is utterly depressing

He also talks about a warning sign in a new relationship being a man who is attracted to women with less power than him. So much younger women, or women with far less money than him, or vulnerable in some way.

This is so interesting because I see this dynamic being played out in all kind of relationships, not just romantic ones, but in other (mainly academic IMPE) situations where the man likes to “explain” his knowledge to an attentive female.

I think it’s fair to say that men suffer from abuse but that the underlying threat of actual death upon leaving changes the dynamics somewhat.

I think there is something in the concepts of hierarchy in human relationships that many boys are taught that plays a part. Power over rather than equality.

I went out with a guy once who had a lot less “social capital” than me (an illegal immigrant) and was accused by a male friend of liking the idea that I had more “power” in the relationship. I was bcs it made me realise that a lot of men think that we see the world in the same hierarchical way that they see it.

That's only your opinion ikeep. The DV statistics speak for themselves. Why are you so opposed to victims of DV accessing help and advice? And that same advice being recommended to women who may potentially be victims of DV in the future? Don't you think that abused women deserve help, support, maybe even a place to chat?

How strange.

The first few times I read about the rules of mysogny (thanks to @TheBewilderness), I thought they were mean and an over-reaction to a few nasty individuals. But after seeing them in practice and noticing patterns, I think they're spot on. The OP has broken 3, 5, 10, 11 and 12 in her post.

You can spot which posters are concerned about which rule.

THE RULES OF MISOGYNY

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

5th rule of misogyny: WATM! [What about the Men] Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.

7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

Sunday morning bloke bashing time.

Sure, if you think "blokes" are abusers.

If you do, that probably says more about you and the blokes you know, than it does about blokes in general.

I'm just come across the word "himpathy" in relation to #metoo. It fits in relation to domestic abuse. Why do we fall over ourselves to talk about the men, despite the terrible extent of violence against women.

This thing about male victims

This is an under discussed topic, I know so many women who are in or have been in abusive relationships. the abuse often starts at home then they move on to be abused by their husbands. Please let women talk about this. If you are concerned about male victims then start a campaign, don't derail this important, life saving topic.

It's important that everyone is aware of the signs of abuse. Male and female.
The point about it not always being physical are excellent. My friend was killed by her partner. Prior to that he had never laid a hand on her . There was, however, a lot of emotional abuse but I don't think she recognised it as abuse.

I didn't realise my first marriage was emotionally abusive until I left and had the benefit of hindsight and people telling me.

We need to raise awareness of emotional abuse the often devastating consequences

Why do we fall over ourselves to talk about the men, despite the terrible extent of violence against women.

Because feminist are scared of being seen as man-haters. Why? Because they don’t hate men.

I find it really interesting that the posters whose immediate reaction is “whatabout the men” are rarely starting threads.

Does a conversation about males suffering domestic violence need to be had? Absolutely.

Is the right place on a thread specifically discussing violence against women? No.

Exactly Yoshimi234

Even if this problem were happening to men in nearly equal numbers, we are women ourselves mostly so excuse us for having a women's perspective when we are women :-|

Also, we're living in a world where women are more likely to be the primary care, more likely to be financialy dependent on a man, more likely to be paid less if they can find a job and pay for childcare, we're living in a world where a single mother is demonised. It is not comparing like with like. if you're worried about men, go and educate them.

Don't you think that abused women deserve help, support, maybe even a place to chat?

It's interesting that you put words in my mouth when I merely pointed that MN is completely one-sided, and loves a good men bashing. Posters have made the experience a few times: write the exact same thread being a "man" or a "woman" and the answers will be completely different. It's quite funny to try.

I never said abuse did not exist or should be ignored. It's interesting that no-one can have an opinion without being accused of being the enemy.

Some posters have terrible issues and a completely twisted view of the world, it's quite scary.

It is only the biggest dickheads who will equate standing up for women as being a man-hater so actually it's a GOOD FILTER.

If you speak up for women and men think you're a man-hater, they're the men you don't want.

@rodstewartsmerkin sadly too, men are statistically less likely to disclose the abuse, less likely to have their case prosecuted and stay in an abusive relationship longer than an abused woman.

Just not true. Men are more likely to call the police on the first attack, while the average female victim of domestic violence suffers over 30 attacks before reporting to the police.

I do think it's a great book for anyone suffering from DA. Women, men, cis or LGBTO. I do think it's depressing how quickly some people are keen to point out that on a mainly female forum, that often has female victims of violence, that we should always preface with men have problems too. I do hope all the prefects also pop on to 4chan and incel forums to advocate for feminism too.

''Some posters have terrible issues and a completely twisted view of the world, it's quite scary.''

If you think that abuse in relationships is a problem that effects men and women equally, and even on a thread on mumsnet, you feel compelled to speak up for MEN rather than women then it is your worldview that is distorted.

And not to mention, do they also go on to cancer support forums to point out that other people die from heart attacks so any advice should include them?

Why can't we talk about this book that is aimed at women without having to involve men too? Why? Why can't a conversation just centre on women, ever?

This.

Yes men are abused by women but to the what about the poor men comments - YOU know full well that it is more often by far the other way around so please do feel free to stfu.

the flannels well said! Men -this is MUMS net. Now it may be the situ that u r the only figure in yr DCs lives and so play mum and dad fair enough or maybe not so find this site useful."whatever"! If u don't like whats being said then set up Dadsnet and fo over there. Thank you. Meanwhile OP thanks for the free posting.

Some posters have terrible issues and a completely twisted view of the world, it's quite scary.

Can you give some actual quotes from this thread to support those assertions?

The OP also seems to assume that no women can spot potentially abusive men without reading Lundy Bancroft. I don't think that is remotely true. Plenty of women can. That's why we don't get involved with them. I have no immediate plans to teach my dd about relationships with abusive men. I do think she is growing up learning to spot who is an arsehole (male or female). Lots of women who find it hard to spot abusive behaviour probably have (through no fault of their own) skewed boundaries or skewed perceptions of what a respectful relationship looks like. Assuming this is the case for all or the majority of women is a bit odd though. The same applies to spotting friends/relatives in abusive relationships.

you feel compelled to speak up for MEN rather than women then it is your worldview that is distorted

As a mother of boys and girls - I have both - yes I do feel compel to protect both. I feel more worried for my boys than my girls frankly when I read some of the hysterical threads on here.

Anyone who came on to this thread to yell 'what about the men' and 'women do it too' is either badly informed, naive, goady or disingenuous.

This thread is aimed at women surviving DV, people who want to support them, and women who don't want to end up in that situation if its possible to avoid it.

As a mother of boys and girls - I have both - yes I do feel compel to protect both. I feel more worried for my boys than my girls frankly when I read some of the hysterical threads on here.

What are you worried will happen to your boys, vs what might happen to your girls?