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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to want to discourage my son from making his children vegan

187 replies

Esspee · 12/05/2018 20:22

My DS and DIL have gone vegan in the last year. They are very well informed so I kept quiet about my reservations.

Tonight on FaceTime my elder grandchild explained that the shadows under her sister's eyes are caused by lack of iron and said something about her bruising and mentioned seeing the doctor. I said nothing as I don't want to cause a family rift but my darling granddaughters seem to be suffering because of their parents following a fad.
What can/should I do?

OP posts:
Teacuphiccup · 12/05/2018 22:12

Every parent ever decides their two year olds diet.

titchy · 12/05/2018 22:15

Neither are the anti-vaxxers and they also do lots of research.

No, they really don't. They THINK they do, but they don't.

bringbackfonzi · 12/05/2018 22:15

Why is it generally accepted that it's ok to 'enforce' food rules on children if the beliefs behind them are religious, but not if they're ethical beliefs?

Original poster
Esspee · 12/05/2018 22:16

@RhiWrites, you ask what I am hoping to get from this post. Initially I was looking for a consensus as to whether I should risk harming the relationship with my son and his wife by trying to bring the subject up. What I have got is some useful information about the potential deficiencies of a vegan diet especially for children amongst other things.
I don't believe I am prejudiced against a vegan diet as you said. My views may be different to yours but I don't consider you prejudiced.

OP posts:
Teacuphiccup · 12/05/2018 22:17

What I have got is some useful information about the potential deficiencies of a vegan diet

Is that seriously what you have taken from the thread?

Teateaandmoretea · 12/05/2018 22:17

Whatever. As I said above if you honestly cannot see the difference between dc eating all foods within reason and only being forced to be vegan you are being obtuse, but we will begin to differ. No parent can actually enforce the diet of a 2yo anyway, as a proportion of what you give them gets lobbed and I imagine 'vegan' 2yos behave the same.

bringbackfonzi · 12/05/2018 22:20

OP, regarding your last post, if two people have different views, they don't have to either both be prejudiced, or neither. It could be that one is based on prejudice, but that the opposing view isn't. So just because you don't think a pp's view is prejudiced, doesn't mean yours isn't.

Teateaandmoretea · 12/05/2018 22:21

Why is it generally accepted that it's ok to 'enforce' food rules on children if the beliefs behind them are religious, but not if they're ethical beliefs?

There is no religion as far as I am aware that restricts food choices as much as being a vegan.

Singlenotsingle · 12/05/2018 22:22

Someone lives 2000 miles away. Not sure if it's OP or the D's and his family. Either way it's difficult/impossible for OP to get involved. Certainly reporting it to SS is irrelevant. Maybe the idea of sending a hamper of vegan treats might be a good idea, and welcomed by the family?

underneaththeash · 12/05/2018 22:24

OP of course you're not being unreasonable. Its difficult enough getting children to eat a healthy diet without restricting sources of calcium, magnesium, essential amino acids (children have more than adults and you cannot get enough of these in any vegan diet even with supplements).
Whilst its fairly clear that excessive consumption of processed meat (and potentially too much red meat although that's not a certain) can cause health problems its also proven that a vegan diet does not provide enough B12 and you can also struggle to get enough calcium and iron. Its not a good thing to be deficient in any of these.

It is generally not possible for a vegan diet to be a balanced source of all the essential vitamins and minerals without supplementing it and therefore its just not healthy. It IS better for the environment, but so is not owning a car, not flying, not using electricity and your son could do one of those rather than putting his child's brain development at risk.

I'm sure your son has read numerous papers endorsed by the vegan agenda, but if you look into them there are usually very flimsy and not backed up properly by scientific research.

I rather my children had a balanced healthy diet.

seventh · 12/05/2018 22:24

Being vegan is a choice.

Rather like being an interested grandparent is a choice

RhiWrites · 12/05/2018 22:25

@Esspee I consider you prejudiced against veganism because of comments you’ve made on this thread such as “To me going vegan is a regressive step in human development“ and “the old ways are the best”.

You’re not open to any positive stories about veganism, you’ve already decided it’s bad. What else would you call this attitude? Superior knowledge?

BoomBoomsCousin · 12/05/2018 22:25

So your son and his wife have started on a new diet for themselves and their children. They’ve discovered some deficiency and they’re talking to a doctor. I’m really not sure what you think your grandchildren have to gain by you butting in to this. Your son is talking to a doctor about the health aspects. Do you think your previous poorly informed reservations or your new Internet gained insight is going to be better? What exactly do you want to tell your son?

I could see your point if you noticed evidence of malnutrition yourself and your son was unaware of it, but it seems like he’s doing exactly what he should and you are way behind on the matter. I really don’t see why you would be doing anything other than offering your support.

Original poster
Esspee · 12/05/2018 22:28

@titchy. I really don't know whether the parents will ignore whatever advice the doctor gave. That I can say that is a worry. Their "conversion" to veganism has almost religious overtones which scares me a bit.

OP posts:
bringbackfonzi · 12/05/2018 22:28

teateaandmoretea Some Buddhists are vegan.

oldbirdy · 12/05/2018 22:29

titchy you are being disingenuous.
The default diet for humans is omnivorous. Our guys and teeth are set up for an omnivorous diet.
Restricting a single meat source, eg pork in Islam and Judaism, is miles away from restricting all animal sources of food.

It is entirely possible to bring small children up as vegans, but veganism tends to be a moral choice and deciding that your 4 year old will eat nothing from an animal source does significantly impact them nutritionally in a way that deciding that you won't eat lamb, or pork, or beetroot, or any other single food source doesn't.

OP I would speak to your son about the girls' health and whether they are iron deficient as your older granddaughter suggested, and whether they have a plan to manage it, and whether one solution might be the limited addition of animal protein. I guess ultimately it doesn't matter where they get their better iron from. People might say spatone or floradix, and if they will take them that might work (not sure on suitable age range). But ultimately the key question you may have to put is, for the girls, what is the prime importance, diet or, if they can't solve it whilst following the diet, health. And that's a separate issue to the parents' dietary decision.

titchy · 12/05/2018 22:31

I really don't know whether the parents will ignore whatever advice the doctor gave.

Can't you just ask them? Without making a point.... or offering advice like eating a steak cooked on an iron griddle...

oldbirdy · 12/05/2018 22:31

Guys = guts

titchy · 12/05/2018 22:33

The default diet for humans is omnivorous

Yes I know. But it is certainly possible if you're well informed to have a healthy vegan diet. Being well informed is of course key.

PurpleDaisies · 12/05/2018 22:38

What I have got is some useful information about the potential deficiencies of a vegan diet especially for children amongst other things

ANY diet has the potential for deficiencies. It depends on what you choose to eat. There’s no reason why a vegan should be deficient in anything if they can be bothered to do it properly.

Original poster
Esspee · 12/05/2018 22:44

@RhiWrites. The comment about the old ways being the best was in regards to cooking pots as I remember and my comment (not prejudice IMHO) that I believed veganism to be a regressive step was based on the fact that our ancestors who were vegan eventually went on to develop much larger brains, language and social structure leading to civilisation only after they moved onto an omnivorous diet. Hunting and farming both arable and animal husbandry fuelled this advance. Without this change we would still be at the stage of the apes.

OP posts:
bringbackfonzi · 12/05/2018 22:48

Espee It may be that without that change in the past we would still be apes. It may also be that if we continue to eat in the way we do now, we will destroy the planet as well as causing a lot of non-essential suffering.

Teacuphiccup · 12/05/2018 22:51

But having a vegan diet now doesn’t make us regress to apes so what we did thousands of years ago is irrelevant.

It’s perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet now.

titchy · 12/05/2018 22:52

the fact that our ancestors who were vegan eventually went on to develop much larger brains, language and social structure leading to civilisation only after they moved onto an omnivorous diet. Hunting and farming both arable and animal husbandry fuelled this advance. Without this change we would still be at the stage of the apes.

The reason meat eating was beneficial was because it required humans/pre-humans to work together thus developing language. Nothing to do with the nutrient value of the diet at all Hmm

No self-respecting archaeologist or developmental biologist would claim otherwise. I assume your archaeologic expertise is watching Time Team...

Original poster
Esspee · 12/05/2018 23:14

No titchy I was one of the ones in the trenches and being interviewed. Why do you feel the need to insult my academic background?

OP posts:
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