To be feeling shit after spending time with wealthier friends

[Iwantmoreketchupplease]

Actually I'm pretty sure I am being unreasonable but I need to get it out anyway so please don't flame me I've been on here ages but have name changed for this.

DH and I met up with our best friends (two other married couples) yesterday evening. Coincidentally, the other two men have both just secured big (as in potentially life changing) promotions at work so there was a lot of talk about that as both couples are, understandably, excited about what it means for them. Both couples were already quite a bit better off than us, to the extent that sometimes when they suggest things for us all to do, places to eat etc. it's awkward because we have to say "actually we can't afford that". So now the difference between our situations will become even more pronounced I suppose. Last night one of the women was excitedly chatting about how she can now afford to give up work to be a SAHM and the other couple were talking about their plans for a 'holiday of a lifetime' next year.

I am pleased for them. Really, I am. But I also feel like DH and I are getting left behind and I suppose I'm just realising that this kind of thing will never happen for us. I've never thought of myself as a materialistic person but i'm ashamed to say I've found myself feeling quite low about it all today.

DH is currently working 50+ hour weeks and has a hellish commute on top of that. He is trying so hard to get on at work but was recently passed over for promotion (in favour of a younger, less experienced man who happens to be dating the bosses daughter) and I know he's feeling quite deflated. He has tried looking elsewhere but he works in quite a niche area and his are limited as he has no academic qualifications. He was always bright but didn't apply himself in school and left school at 16 to go out to work as soon as he could to his very difficult and chaotic home life, whereas most of our friends our educated at least to degree level. I had a well paid but very stressful part time role but was forced to give it up following a breakdown in my mental health. So I now have to work full time in a less stressful, but lower paying, low status job that I'm overqualified for. Everyday I'm talked down to by people who assume I'm uneducated or inexperienced because of my position. There is no possibility of progression and I'll never be able to go back to what I was doing before. So neither of us is where we want to be and I think last night just really brought it home to me.

I know we are lucky compared to many (we have our own home, for example) but we haven't had a holiday for years and have to budget very carefully. I know money isn't everything, but of course it would be nice to have the money to join a gym, get a cleaner, go on regular shopping trips and spa days like most of my friends do or to not have to worry if something goes wrong with the car or an appliance breaks down unexpectedly.

Any words of wisdom or advice on how to get past feeling like this would be much appreciated. I definitely don't want to distance myself from good friends just because they're doing better in life than we are but equally I don't want to feel like shit every time we get together.

Your post reminded me of Harry Enfield’s ‘Considerably richer than you’ characters, OP

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to feel shit - you were meant to feel shit. You were the chosen audience for a load of showing off.

I’d really think twice about spending another evening like that, though.

I do sympathise OP. I have an old friend who has done very well for herself. We both did well academically but I went into the NHS management whilst she went into law and works at a big law firm in London. She probably earns 4 times my salary, plus has a lifestyle of champagne business lunches and fancy business dinners etc. Whenever we meet up these days it's always great to see her, but I do feel like the 'poor friend'. She doesn't gloat about money at all, but she's become so used to a certain level of lifestyle I don't think she really thinks sometimes. E.G, She'll be like 'lets go here for lunch' and the place in question is like £30 a main course and £15 a drink, or suggests we go for a spa day, and she lacks any awareness that I really struggle to afford that. And it feels really uncomfortable to constantly say 'actually can we do something a bit cheaper'.

OP you need to get out and do new things/meet new people and leave these high earners to it.Its not that important what you earn as long as the basics are covered. You own your own home thats a great asset.
I'd have a brag for Britain neighbour and she came in the other day and boasted continually about how much her daughters earned, how they had good pensions, got great redundancy payouts etc, bla, bla. She even said when you win the lottery you can go and see my daughter for some financial advise!. I thinks shes crass and vulgar.
What I'm doing in future is just saying, hi, bye etc and not allowing her the space to brag in my face.
I'd move on from your friends and find people who you have more in common with. You will not be able to compete with these current people so why make yourself miserable?

You could reflect that all the money in the world can't buy tact...

this

I have a perfect friend who does my dream job and earns £££ more than I do, has fancy holidays, is slim and beautiful and married to a lovely man with two beautiful babies.

Its difficult not to feel jealous but I remember that she suffers depression sometimes and has the same body insecurities that I do. And her baby was poorly and harder work than mine. Plus shes my best friend and I love her.

You have a lot more than most so try and be thankful for that.

I also think the UK is more financially divided than ever, in increasingly random ways. Everything is such a lottery: property value inflation and inheritance in particular.

I think you should reflect on the fact that this latent pressure in our society to constantly do, not just well, but very well is probably contributing massively to the crisis of negative mental health. It's become pretty toxic in the last 10 - 15 years.

We have an atmosphere where we are always judging our self-worth, and that of others by how much money we earn, what occupation we do, how much prestige that occupation gives us. We compare ourselves constantly to others, feel we need to talk ourselves up all the time, feel we don't have as much social status as someone doing better, we work long hours to achieve success and spend less and less time with things that give life meaning outside of and not just related to work.

Its reflected in our popular culture. Those at the bottom are treated as objects for scorn and entertainment - cue constant TV programs on the lives of the very poor - because well they have no status, whilst at the same time, programs constantly depict the lifestyle you could get, cue a plethora of house programs, programs about building houses, programs about renovating houses, and 20 xs more adverts on how many material comforts you need.

What's important is your mental health, and your marriage, your relationships, and your happiness and contentment. By all means perhaps seek better paid work elsewhere? Or train up, but do so while keeping a balanced viewpoint.

And your 'friends' lack tact. Perhaps find some more that are more down to earth.

Excellent post hadroncollider

Would you feel better about yourselves if your best friends' had shit lives and no money?

Sadly, most people would, though many wouldn't admit it.

Your friends/colleagues/family/neighbours are better off than you: you feel shit.

Your friends/colleagues/family/neighbours are worse off than you: you feel good*.

In both scenarios your actual circumstances are the same, meaning it's mindset, which you can control.

*not in a spiteful way, but everyone feels this way, just hopefully doesn't express it!

I have friends who are very wealthy, own plane to go away for weekends away, they will fly to France to have lunch and then fly home again. They are the nicest people, it doesn't bother me accept when they suggest certain holidays which we just can't afford, then my sil is wealthy but so unhappy, her husband went off and had an affair with his PA, everyone at his company new accept her. They are awful and I can say I would never wish to be in her shoes. They are only together because of the money, money definitely does not always bring happiness

Maybe look at it the other way around? Sometimes it’s very healthy when you are wealthy to keep friends no matter whether they have ‘kept up’ or not. Otherwise you end up in a superficial competitive world, which isn’t much fun!

I know it’s tough, but you are important to them. Honestly great friendships are worth more than gold. What you bring to them cannot be bought.

Honestly?

It's all relative.

I don't agree with find poorer friends to feel smug but go volunteer with a poverty rested charity and over you will come out feeling like you are doing very very well.

I don't think it's just about the money for you, well, my pangs of envy weren't when I had them, it was because others appeared 'sorted' when I was still struggling career-wise and in temporary jobs. It can really bring home to you you are not where you want to be, and also that the future will look a certain way unless you change things.

There's two 'solutions' - be grateful for what you have got which is hard, but worth it, I rent, for example, so could be jealous of your owned home but I am thankful for the roof over my and my children's head, that I can afford to rent a whole house etc. I feel better if I think this way than constantly feeling bad I don't own a really big house. The second is to change something, perhaps not to go back to your stressful job, but are there any possibilities where you currently work to take on more responsibility?

Your friends are a bit tactless but on the other hand if you can't talk about your lives with your friends, it all gets a bit strained so I don't blame them for being excited.

Has your dh asked his work what he could do to set himself up better to get the next promotion? I hear hat you need to work on being happier in your own lives too.

I do find it frustrating on these sorts of threads when people say Look into getting a better job, retrain, do more with your own life.

Op has stated that she has had to take a low paid job due to mental health issues and that money is tight- they don't have a fund for any unexpected costs. Retraining is expensive and that's without including the loss in earnings while pursuing a new career.

It seems like a failure to understand how most working class people live; basically stuck in a poverty trap. There's not an easy solution to that, you just have to struggle on.

I could have written most of that. I often think I must be the most skint out of all my friends. But they say Comparison is the theft of joy don't they?

Dh is good at reminding me that there are people out there with less than us and to be thankful for what we do have and for two healthy kids etc but you are only human and of course you are going to feel envious at times whilst still being pleased for your friends good fortune.
More money gives you more choice in life and the freedom to experience new things.

I actually had an old friend. We were flat mates when students and her life has gone on to be very affluent. She lives miles away in a very posh place. Her children were privately educated etc One of the last times I spoke to her she was telling me they had moved and she had given up her little part time admin job to ' supervise the extension.' When I asked for her address and the number of her house she said " Oh. We don't have numbers round here. It's called 'xxx xxx Lodge." Lol!!

Then she wanted to visit me and I made excuses. Then I felt bad about it because it's not her but me. She genuinely wanted to see me but I just couldn't face it because I feel that our lives have moved so far apart because of money that she just wouldn't understand what it's like to be chained to a job, treading water until the mortgage is paid off. That is sad really that i feel like that but it's true. I asked myself why would she want to come here when she lived in a fabulous city in a fantastic house and doesn't have to work? As a result we now no longer even exchange Christmas cards.
As I said, entirely because of me busy comparing when we would have caught up on our news and probably had a great time.

When people are having a lucky run they aren't really going to think about you and your finances but just be honest when you can't afford stuff and you can't compete.
I do know exactly how you feel though.

I definitely don't want to distance myself from good friends just because they're doing better in life than we are but equally I don't want to feel like shit every time we get together.

I'd be so thankful that I wasn't them

How awful to be people who talk about wealth

Yuk

I had to pull back from a couple of friends a few years ago. The three of us were on roughly the same money, but their parents had been very generous during uni, so they had no debt, and they both had boyfriends who were earning much more than my (now) dh. It meant our "couple" spending power was a lot lower than theirs. They didn't seem to have any awareness of it - and I wasn't prepared to spend money we didn't have to keep up with them, or keep doing the awkward 'actually, we can't really afford that' conversations about nights out / weekend breaks/ holidays etc.

It's a shame because we did drift apart, but I know it was the right choice. We're still in touch, but I think if we were still close I would spend a lot of time feeling shit about what I've got in comparison - e.g. 3 bed semi ex council house, vs big 4 bed new build detached. In reality I know that I am lucky to have what I have, and I am happy with what we've got. But it's harder to think like that if the other person's lifestyle is in your face the whole time.

Agree, they sound full of themselves and insensitive

Don't feel down, your luck may change yet

FwIW, cleaners and spa days and even holidays-of-a-lifetime (usually a Fkorida disney cut and paste job) are not all that, I don't think. Or being a sahm!

Ilostin with something like an OU degree OP could take a lot of time over it, so go at a pace that suits her, and get a student loan, so no need to pay back anything until/unless earning over the threshold. So something like that would be an option. Obviously depending if she had the time and wants to do that.

I read threads like this and sometimes worry if I might be falling into the trap of the rich people. We aren't on megabucks but I love holidays and particularly enjoy talking about what other people are up to.

I'd like to think I have some awareness and if someone is being quiet I'd try to change the conversation, but really when you're out socially it's perfectly natural to discuss jobs, holidays, house extensions etc. and if you were constantly monitoring yourself to avoid any reference to your income or status then that would be a bit awkward too.

Ok the friend who said they could now afford to be SAHM was explicitly referencing her and her partner’s income, but I don’t think mentioning a holiday or sharing exciting news about your career is ‘talking about wealth’ when it’s between good friends!
OP, I think you need to separate thoughts about your friends lives from your thoughts about your own and your husband’s careers and ‘success’. Honestly wouldn’t you feel just as crap if you thought the friends kept all their news from you? Maybe you need to be more honest about not being able to go out all the time and suggest meeting at each other’s houses. Also, maybe talk to one of them about how you feel, in a non-accusatory way? I know it sounds stupid but they really may not realise it’s upsetting you?
As to your life and happiness, as Voltaire said, cultivate your garden (nice bit of old fashioned philosophy)

Conversations about extensions,and holidays are quite boring IMO, apart from anything else

It is all status status status

That's true Peanut I'd hate to have staff! I'd find it terribly embarrassing to have other people clean up for me or do things for me and I don't like the idea of a cleaner wandering round my home.
I'd be such a rubbish rich person.

Envy and jealousy is the worst feeling isn't it. Look, I guess you need to think about how lucky you are to have what you do. Count your blessings as they say. For your home, your family, your health. Because those are the things that matter in life. The things that bring you true happiness. Because after all, there's never enough money. The more money people have, the more they want. Be happy and enjoy your family. Value love over wealth.

Honestly / see them less ! That’s my very effective technique for people who make me feel shit

And be more confident and honest about your circs versus theirs / they should understand how tactless they are

I pay for my skint mates , or cover a few drinks

Who are these cunts that don’t realise this ? I know a few too