To want to shake my “unschooling” “friend”

[MrsPreston11]

She seems to think that because my kids are in awful, awful (ofsted outstanding and they’re both very happy) mainstream school they miss out on SO much.

And takes any chance she can to make sure I know how very very happy she is having all these “precious adventures” every day.

Most days they just watch TV/iPad and then once a month go to a museum or theme park.

Her oldest (5) can’t read or write yet, can’t play nice with other kids, can’t sit still for 2 seconds.

Guess what. Mine go to museums and theme parks and beaches too. I’m not bloody neglecting them.

Urgh. Sorry. Rant over.

I know a lot about the subjects I was good at, but not the ones I wasn't good at and dropped in secondary.

Why would anyone want to home ed, ‘unschool’ etc if all you are going to do is ‘teach’ like a teacher?! And follow the exact curriculum?

You need to if you're going to pass exams that have a curriculum.
Obviously no need for primary.

The fact that so few parents feel even remotely confidant to pass on to their children, the information they spent years studying just shows how ineffectual a form of learning it is.
(Tingley)

But it wasn't ineffective. What I learned was perfectly valid for the time. And it wasn't just for the purposes of passing exams either. Thousands of people choose a subject they love to study in university. I certainly did. Thousands of people who eventually enter the world of work find that the experience of exams itself prepares them for life in university or later again in careers that feature deadlines. Certainly exposure to a manageable amount of stress such as that found in the average school can result in resilience, so essential to development.

If you're in the US you can study virtually any combination of subjects just based on interest. DD1 did courses in Persian, philosophy, physics, psychology, economics, fine arts, calculus III, English, History, and statistics in university, and many others, and not just to skim either. Her degree is in economics. She has been gainfully employed as an economic analyst in serious organisations since graduation and has a side business in graphic design.

Things have just moved on in a number of subjects. It's not that parents don't feel confident. Parents perhaps respect the training and experience of teachers more than you do, and they are aware that there are newer approaches, newer discoveries. In some subjects I can still personally hold my own - Art, Irish, French, English and maths up to a certain point. Music too. Some things don't change.

Some parents are also aware that maybe there are personal limitations on their part that would hold back a child just as personal limitations on the part of some teachers can hold back a child. I am certain that three of my DCs have far higher IQs than I do. I also know that I would not be able to cater the way schools have to their individual learning styles. There are swings and roundabouts in schooling - quite often everything balances out simply because of the variety of teaching styles and the levels of expertise.

VitriolI live in Australia too and while there are lots of external tests for mathy kids (NAPLAN, AMC, ICAS, CAT etc) they don’t seem to be hard to do well in and thus don’t really have intrinsic value.

I have a very mathy daughter, she could count to 100 at 2 and now receives a modified curriculum in maths. DH and I are both very academic, i could probably teach the sciences and English at high school level and do ok. However, even though I did well at maths at high school (2nd overall in my final year) and could maybe teach the curriculum to my kids if I studied it I can’t go beyond it and I am not intrinsically mathy. At school she does extra enrichment maths with one of the high school teachers (she’s 10) and she brought home a few problem solving probability questions to finish off this weekend. I had no idea where to start and couldn’t understand how she got to the answers she did (she had no problem). Could this level of specialised teaching be replicated in home ed, or would it be just luck if there was a talented maths teacher around who could teach talented kids? I can’t see how online activities can replicate an enthusiastic teacher. I know we’re lucky to have enthusiastic and talented teachers.

She’s smart overall and I’m sure could race through the curriculum with 1:1 attention but all she talks about after a day at school is what happened with her friends and the other kids in the class and that, to her, seems more important than the academic stuff.

nolongersurprised
I agree with you on the intrinsic value of those tests, but a previous poster was wondering about how to gauge if they were keeping up. I gave a non-exhaustive list as an example, meant to provide somewhat reassuring info - not to debate.

I am very pleased to hear that your child is having a great school experience. It is genuinely lovely to hear that she is getting such rich, differentiated instruction.
Obviously I can't speak to every individual situation but generally, Yes, I can think of several ways to access enthusiastic teachers for specialist instruction. Probably I'd start with finding a mentor, perhaps by becoming involved with an organisation like Australian Mathematics Trust.
But home ed isn't for everyone and it is a different mindset to traditional schooling. I'm glad that school works for so many kids!

No comment on the home schooling stuff... but she is being a massive CF for judging you for sending your kids TO SCHOOL!!!!!!

Just to add, I find that some Home Ed parents do not realise that school is often different from when they attended. Fine if you know and understand what modern schools offer. But don't dismiss schools based on how you were taught 20 years ago.

*Dr spouse Why would anyone want to home ed, ‘unschool’ etc if all you are going to do is ‘teach’ like a teacher?! And follow the exact curriculum?

You need to if you're going to pass exams that have a curriculum.
Obviously no need for primary*

I’m sure there is more than one way to learn and pass exams. I don’t home school, I’ve assumed it’s about finding a learning style and curriculum that suits your child. Not just replicating exactly what a teacher/school do.

@crunchiemint this is true. My friend is planning on home schooling her toddler bases on many assumptions on School.
She often tells me my DD isn’t learning this and that - when she actually is. She told me they do ‘no art’ in school anymore, DD does half a day a week.

I home ed and she would be annoying me tbh. I avoid the home edders who feel the need to slate the school system and judge those who use it. School can be fantastic and many children thrive there , others thrive at home.

YANBU - shake away.

If she wants to home school - fine. But she has no right to criticise you for not doing it. Just tell her that it's none of her business what you choose to do with your kids.

It's also hard to find an online curriculum that's challenging enough for a bright child (my relatives looked into this and the only options were really for those who were resitting to get a minimum 5 subjects)

This is not true at all in my experience @drspouse. There are online schools that cover the core subjects to GCSE (and some to A-Level). Interhigh offers (edexcel) iGCSEs in English lan and lit, maths, geography, history, Spanish, double award science (those are what DD is taking, so that'll be 8 GCSEs) and also separate sciences, French and business studies (there may be more, can't remember). I'm sure Interhigh aren't the only ones offering that.

Yes I knew my O levels at the time but I didn't learn all of the topics well enough to cover them now, go into depth, know what's new in the field and teach all the skills to GCSE level.I could cover the knowledge happily at primary level but wouldn't for DS.

I totally agree with that, though; I was happy (ish!) home edding at primary level, but secondary was a whole different kettle of fish. I think secondary is where an inspiring teacher can make all the difference to someone's understanding and love of a subject, and self-directed learning or teaching from a parent doesn't always achieve that. Mind you, nor does school if you don't happen to have an inspiring teacher!

I’ve assumed it’s about finding a learning style and curriculum that suits your child. Not just replicating exactly what a teacher/school do.

If you want to pass an externally set exam, you have to follow the curriculum for that exam.
Obviously as I've said this is not true if you are looking at primary.

Namey the ones they looked into didn't offer separate sciences. Good to hear that some do.

I have a friend who was "homeschooled" - her mum totally half-arsed it, shes got 2 C grade GCSEs and thats it. She went on to put herself through a textiles degree but now cant find employment because of the "No GCSEs but have a degree" meaning she fits into no-ones employment boxes.
Non-mainstream choices sometimes have unfortunate repercussions.

home education is fine if done properly but it sounds as if thats not happening here. Most home educators are at many meet ups during the week and very rarely home. there will be very little social interaction if they are not leaving the house often.

YANBU OP

She sounds like a complete idiot

I have never understood for those who advocate this, why leaving a teenager with a lot of books and an online study programme, is better than a live teacher teaching you the same things and answering your questions.

I find that many people that bang on about a subject like that, to the detriment of someone else’s experience or life, do it to make themselves feel better about their own choices. It’s not really to do with you.
She could be one of those - she certainly doesn’t seem to be in the position to pass on any social niceties to that kid.
I have a mate who was always going on about sex, being sexy, dressing sexily, how OUTRAGEOUS she is etc. To everyone. I’m one of the few people who know her well enough to know that she has huge anxieties around sex and gets very little of it in reality. She causes massive arguments with her DP out of nothing to avoid intimacy.
Maybe your friend is a bit like that with this education stuff...

Crunchy there are lots of reasons it can be better. School for my 12 year old is a nightmare. He has ASD sensory issues and the noise in the class room is distracting and anxiety inducing.
He also has a specific learning difficulty and has poor working memory and sequencing ability. In spite of these difficulties he is very intelligent.

In a class room he can't learn in the same way he can in a one on one homeschooling environment, firstly because the sensory needs make his anxiety too high and secondly because of the processing issues he needs longer than a person of the same intelligence to complete a task and for it to sink in.

Yes in an ideal world you can ask an expert, but often teachers are not experts they just deliver the curriculum. DS has an interest in history and WW2 today we have been on an walk at an old air base delivered by an ex RAF officer. It was fascinating. He has been doing lots of work on WW2 and was able to ask the officer lots of questions.

We are new to homeschooling and I am going to engage tutors for the core subjects as he wants to be educated and I am not sure I am capable of teaching maths, english and science.

School is great for lots of children. It was great for me! But there are other ways to educate which are just as effective.

I understand it with SEN such as your DC has. But not for children who also do/would do fine at school.

But given that my SEN DC is capable and aiming for good GCSE results being educated at home why is that different for non Sen children? A lot of the teenagers I know who are selecting options are finding they are limited by what’s on offer at school. There is much more opportunity to explore your interests at a deeper level if you are not confined by school. Neither school nor home ed are better they are personal choice but if home ed is done well it is not limiting imo

Crunchy most kids who would do fine at school probably are at school. There are people who home ed for philosophical reasons, but a lot of HEers are doing it because school wasn't working for their child for whatever reason.

I have never understood for those who advocate this, why leaving a teenager with a lot of books and an online study programme, is better than a live teacher teaching you the same things and answering your questions.

Interhigh (I keep mentioning that, because it's the one that I have experience of, but there are other similar providers) does have live teachers doing all that. It's not necessarily 'better' than a bricks and mortar school, just different, with different advantages (no classroom disruption by the students, for one - the teacher can just mute their microphone!) and disadvantages. Same with other home ed options - various options work better for some kids /families than others. That's not so hard to understand, surely?

A lot of the teenagers I know who are selecting options are finding they are limited by what’s on offer at school. There is much more opportunity to explore your interests at a deeper level if you are not confined by school.

I totally get this. And when it’s done well, it’s done amazingly well. I have sat down and talked to HE kids who are 13/14 and been given an education by them because their breadth of knowledge and depth of understanding is incredible.

But these are kids whose parents have worked incredibly hard to provide their kids with an education which gives their children great opportunities. HE is not an easy option if you want to do it right.

The problem is that since it’s become fashionable a minority of parents view it as an easy option and use concepts like ‘unschooling’ as a cover for educational neglect.

MightyMucks I agree with this, which is why it probably needs more regulation than it currently has and is probably why some parents object to it.

I will be regulated because my son has an EHCP so there will be an annual review. It seems sensible to me that an annual review is made obligatory in all cases. I know from the facebook groups that I am a member of that a large number of homeschooling families strongly object to this.