To want to shake my “unschooling” “friend”

[MrsPreston11]

She seems to think that because my kids are in awful, awful (ofsted outstanding and they’re both very happy) mainstream school they miss out on SO much.

And takes any chance she can to make sure I know how very very happy she is having all these “precious adventures” every day.

Most days they just watch TV/iPad and then once a month go to a museum or theme park.

Her oldest (5) can’t read or write yet, can’t play nice with other kids, can’t sit still for 2 seconds.

Guess what. Mine go to museums and theme parks and beaches too. I’m not bloody neglecting them.

Urgh. Sorry. Rant over.

Irrelevant what the topic. Live by the sword die by the sword if you are snidey about others choices as it sounds like this woman is, you can expect your own choices to be criticised right back at you.

I have only actually done this once with strangers at a wedding who went on and on and on about the fact I wasn't going back to work after mat leave. I was too polite to comment on their choice. They kept on. So I told them what I thought about their choice. They both looked as if they were going to cry.

Thanks for explaining that’s actually very helpful. I was considering Home ed or maybe even unschooling (now I know) for my ds with SN’s.

@Shedmicehugh1 there is another phrase you might here which is deschooling. This is different from unschooling and is a period where a child is allowed to recover from mainstream schooling to enable them to embark on learning from home.

This is apparently especially relevant if there has been trauma at school which is often the case if the child needs to come out for SEN reasons.

My son has had a period of several weeks where we haven't done anything, in fairness he was signed off sick with anxiety from school for the majority of the period. We have now picked up a few things at his pace, he has started reading loads (hadn't picked up a book for pleasure ever before), is obsessed with devouring every possible resource on WWII and has started doing Khan Academy for maths.

The language can be quite confusing. I want to introduce more of a structure but want to be sure his mental health is strong first. If you are not in a happy place you can't learn.

My son is has just turned 12 and was in year 7.

sorry should be you might 'hear' not here!

Watched a documentary called Ferrell kids

Awful name the boys was 12 and couldn’t read one of these dread lock trustafain types from what I saw the boy spent most of the day shooting pellet guns

The grandad was so worried took the boy for private tutoring behind her back

www.channel4.com/programmes/feral-families

They are hugely unpopular with HE families and needless to say the program was vastly edited.

Some thoughts...

"It's massively irresponsible to promote home education in my opinion."
It's really sad that you had such a negative experience, MrsFilly, and it sounds like your parents home educated you for the wrong reasons. There are many kids, though, who are deeply, traumatically unhappy in mainstream education, and home ed/online schooling/alternative provision can be, quite literally, a lifesaver for them. To say that is shouldn't be 'promoted' (ie people shouldn't be made aware that it is an option) is massively irresponsible, in my opinion.

I also think the OP is pretty snidey. How do you know that her kids spend all day on the iPad and only go to museums once a month? Are you there with them the whole time? I HE'd DD for 3 years during the primary years, and we spent LOADS of time on the iPad... because it's a fantastic educational resource. It depends what apps they're using, and whether she's supervising, really, doesn't it.

Shedmice don't let this thread put you off home ed for your kids if that's the right thing for them. There are many, many (infinite, really) permutations of home education, of which unschooling/autonomous HE is just one (or many - it can range from the wonderful to the appallingly neglectful!). My DD has attended an online secondary school for the last 4 years, and is thriving there. The school is growing year on year with kids for whom mainstream hasn't worked - unmet SEN, school refusal due to anxiety, bullying that hasn't been dealt with, many reasons. There are many options.

I know lots of home edders, from the structured through to the unschoolers. I'm not personally a fan of autonomous/unschooling, but when done well, it can be a legitimate choice. The two I know who have gone the total unschooling route, though, I do have my doubts about how that's going to work out now that they're approaching GCSE level.

HellenaHandbasket I don’t think the 12 year old hardly being able to spell was edited

The other family seemed like they were actually quite bigoted and felt her children mixing with others would somehow infect them

And the other mum with daughter seemed like she just couldn’t get her sit together to do the school run I am all for homeschooling but if you have a duty to make sure at the very least they can read write and count it’s their human right if you want to teach them basket weaving and how to throw knives then so be it

YANBU. I wouldn’t describe her as a friend, she sounds like a massive pain in the backside. ‘Unfriend’ her . I have a home ed ‘friend’ who I have distanced myself from for similar reasons.

Namey I agree. I am glad there is a wealth of information available if there wasn't I wouldn't be so confident I am capable of giving my son an education. I always had the expectation that he would be in school so I have to be flexible to realise that the environment is not the best for him environmentally.

Also MrsFilly do you realise that the parents of many SEN kids are actually being encouraged by schools to deregister their children as the schools cannot meet their needs and there are inadequate special schools and alternative provision? It's disgraceful really. Families are actually forced into it often, have to give up homes and jobs etc.

You judge her (and stereotype her ) with every post.

You don’t KNOW if her approach will benefit her child or not. You don’t know if it matters whether at 5 they don’t do things that don’t interest them. Who cares if she chooses to be vegan: it arguably has health and eco benefits. (I neither homeschool nor avoid animal products).

Just stop letting her wind you up. Relax and say, in a friendly positive way, you are glad she is happy with her choices, she doesn’t need to justify her choices to you you made a choice to send your children to school and so far you and they are happy. So great all round and she can stop sending you the links.

Is she moaning about you on SM? Like you are her!

Oh, and my NT child didn’t learn to read til 6, the average, and is now pretty certain, if all goes as predicted, to make his Oxbridge offer.

Boys can be a bit slower, on average, anyway.

Taratill I work in SEN and am aware of the lack of funding and appropriate provision. It is unfair that a parent should have to give up work due to this and thus endure financial hardship and expecting a parent to HE if they do not want to is not fulfilling LEAs obligation to the child. Equally I can see in those circumstances a parent might see HE as a better option.

However if there are no known SEN issues with the child then I just think you have to be very sure about your personal reasons for HE. Maybe my wording was a little strong but encouraging people in the way the OPs friend is, is to my mind iresponsible, but I accept others will have had more positave experiences.

My really annoying and educationally limited sister ‘unschooled’ her kids. They are both now at university and doing splendidly. My mainstream taught kids (one of the best schools in the UK-top 10) are both dole-claiming losers with no drive or pizzazz. She’s obviously done something right. Kudos to her (the annoying wench!)

Nothing wrong with not being able to read or write at 5. I didn't till later and I am now a doctor.

It is wrong of her to be judging your choice to formally educate your children, but it sounds like you are judging gets too!

My 5 year old can read and write because of pre school and school. She can also play nicely (in the main) because of the socialisation.

YANBU

Lots of people go to mainstream school, eat lots of meat, take medicine, and end up unemployed, depressed, and/or unhappily single.

I am sick of people sneering at vegans, and unschoolers. Vegan unschoolers are definitely not the most annoying or unhealthy people I know.

Re the OP's comments about the way the friend is handling unschooling: I think it's important to read between the lines here.

Yes, technically it's fine for the 5yo to not be reading or writing. But will the non-reading and non-writing go on and on year after year? What about other subjects? The OP's comments suggest that the friend is taking an excessively lackadaisical approach and that the kids are getting a lot of screen time and not much structured activity.

I still remember the Unschooling forum on the Mothering website back in the days when that was popular. It was full of kids who played shitloads of Minecraft and were seriously behind on their education. Saddest thing is that you could tell that the parents sort of knew this, but by now they had kept their kids out so long and let them get so far behind that they could not face the process of putting the kids back into school because it would force them to confront how badly they had messed up.

I think structured homeschooling can be brilliant, but let's not kid ourselves---some people are just plain irresponsible.

JamieVardysHavingAParty

"its not uncommon amongst the home schoolers she knows for children not to read and write untill 8 or 9

This is not untrue- partially because children with additional needs are overpresented amongst home-educated children, but also partially because parents who are shite at teaching excuse themselves with statistics like this."

That's also not strictly true. I HE 5 kids, my middle child didn't start reading till he was 10, and now 2 years later at age 12 he's reading just fine, at an age appropriate level. Late reading doesn't mean not learning. Home ed has many different styles, and all are valid.

You tend to deschool a month for each year of formal education

Deschooling is a completely made up thing & it is not compliant with the law.
Parents of home educated children are required by law to provide a full time education suitable to the needs & abilities of their child from day one.
It is understood that there will be a period of adjustment, but education should still be provided during this time.

When the Local Authority make enquiries into a home educated childs provision (which they do), if you care to tell them you are deschooling they are quite likely to send you a Notice to Satisfy by return post, leading to a School Attendance Order if you cannot show a suitable education is taking place.

the parents of many SEN kids are actually being encouraged by schools to deregister their children as the schools cannot meet their needs and there are inadequate special schools and alternative provision? It's disgraceful really. Families are actually forced into it often, have to give up homes and jobs etc.
^^ from Taratill

Sadly a good friend has had this experience. She didn't want to home ed, but school are putting pressure on her to deregister her child because of his low attendance due to genuine health problems. Shocking that rather than trying to help and support a child with health problems and some educational needs, they are making life more difficult, refusing to make reasonable adjustments or offer a reduced timetable and denying he has problems. My friend is still fighting for him to get an EHCP and it's been 3 years so far since school tried to get rid of him

I have a relative like this so I can't un-relative them unfortunately!
When asked about all the fabulous things they do because they are unschooling they are ALL things I also do with my DCs anyway.

My DS has SEN and I can't get him to sit down for more than 1 minute to do most things. So we practice his handwriting for a minute and his reading for probably 5 minutes each weekday and that would be the limit of "lessons" for each day if I had him at home. Then we'd go to Beavers once a week (which we'd do anyway and isn't in school time) and swimming ditto and then to a museum with a play theme once every couple of weeks - which he wouldn't engage with if there weren't many other children in anyway, if it was a weekday, so we'd probably go at the weekend.
And what they do sounds exactly the same as we do out of school hours.

Fortunately the younger one rebelled and has been in school for some time now (they are called "square" by their parents, who seem to think it's still the 1960s) and the older one is now back in school but with a lot of catching up to do. I think their plan is for the older one to get some GCSEs (they should manage 5, but are capable of a lot more) and then drop out again.

It sounds to me like your 'friend ' is desperately seeking validation of her own choices by putting your different choices down - not nice, not necessary, not a friend.

Its just another thing that might grow then, so you will have the 'home schoolers v the ones that send their children to school ' ones. as if life isnt hard enough at times without another thing to feel guilty about

I don't believe in guilt and I certainly don't believe that there is some magic formula, that if we just got it right, we'd end up bring up perfect adults.