To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

I agree with the OP.
I also don't believe we are designed to be carnivores. No other carnivore on the planet has to use tools to catch it's prey or have to cook it either. Pretty sure that lion caught that gazelle with its claws and teeth and eats it raw. We can't. We are not designed to eat it.
But I think we are so brainwashed to believe we need meat that if you eat it, you are very very defensive of it. It's only when you start researching and looking into the meat industry and the effects on our health that you realise how stupid you really are. But No one can be told, they have to figure this out for themselves. Fortunately more and more people are

@MintChocChip04 plants aren't sentient, which for me is the difference

(I wish people would read the thread!)

Anewhope It is not a sweeping statement when it is overwhelmingly true.

@duckling84 totally agree with you!

They live free in a field, in a herd

Clearly they don't live free. And the fields are kept and modified so that they are not really amenable for wild life as it would be if horses were allowed to roam free.

Cows raised for meat can live lives just as good and good meat isn't pumped up with anything.

I don't disagree that we could do without most meat (see earlier post). I just disagree with your black and white views that meat bad, keeping horses good.

But you didn't answer most of my questions.

MyOtherUsernameisaPun That has been proven to be false. But I can understand why you need to believe that.

What questions didn't I answer?!

I also don't believe we are designed to be carnivores.

Not carnivores. But certainly omnivores.

You can believe what you like. Biologists and anthropologists have concluded from research that we are.

True herbivores don't have canine teeth.

What questions didn't I answer?!

Scroll back.

@MintChocChip04 I've actually looked into this extensively today, for this thread. And I have not seen it 'proven false' anywhere.

Plants react to stimuli - sunshine, water etc. They respond to chemical signals. But these are reflective actions, chemical or biochemical triggers. They aren't capable of conscious thought. They don't have brains. That is an essential difference as far as I'm concerned.

Oh fine, I missed the one about the dog. I think that it would be cruel to keep a dog and not feed it meat - unlike humans, dogs are carnivores and need meat to survive. It's up to individuals to decide if they feel comfortable keeping a dog knowing they will need to feed it meat. I think anyone who does keep a dog should do their best to source the least harmful meat possible - there are sources online to assist with this. Mass produced dog food should be avoided. I don't have dogs myself. I don't think feeding a dog the meat it needs to survive is comparable to a human eating meat because they like the taste.

I'm afraid I have to go now as I'm out this evening - didn't just want to disappear and leave other posters hanging...

OP you are being unreasonable but you are entitled to your opinion as long as you don't force me to stop eating nutrient-dense foods for my health.

The human race evolved eating meat, that is a fact. We do very well on it because it is nutrient-dense, particularly the offal and the fat.

Our ancestors have been around 6 million years and slowly developed into the humans we have today. Eating nutrient-dense meat/fish and particularly offal was responsible for the enlargement and development of our brains. Farming of grains and vegetables and fruit was introduced relatively recently but these foods do not give us the breadth of nutrition that meat does.

Veg has been modified to become bigger for better yields but the nutrition value has suffered as a consequence. Fruit, once a seasonal treat that was foraged has also been artificially developed to become sweeter and larger.

There is growing evidence that eating too much grains, sugars and starchy carbohydrates can cause illness and disease in humans (diabesity epidemic, anyone?). I stopped eating this stuff a couple of years ago and my health improved immensely as a consequence.

Ruminants are essential to our landscape, they eat grasses in the most inhospitable areas of the world that cannot be used to grow crops, they fertilise the soil to keep it rich in nutrients. Clearing forests and hedgerows for growing crops which need constant artificial fertilisers and spraying with chemicals (which destroys inspect and animal habitats) is not animal-friendly at all. Ruminants rule, IMO.

Our "canine" teeth are hardly big or powerful enough to kill a cow and rip out it's flesh. And let's not forget we are just very evolved apes and apes are 97% herbivore- just the odd insects or small birds. So maybe we are designed to eat bugs and that's why we have our little pointy teeth. But a bug is nothing like what is put on our plate for our Sunday roast.
We are also the only animal on the planet that drinks the milk of another animal. MN especially is incredibly pro breastfeeding, and you constantly see threads about how it's best for the baby as it's specially formulated for baby humans etc etc, yet many see nothing wrong drinking the milk that has been specially formulated for baby cow. Wtf? Like really think about it. You are drinking a cow's breast milk which has been designed to have the right nutrients for a baby cow. Not a human. Utter madness.

killed humanely

I've been a vegetarian around 30 years. OP, I think just live and let live. It's not for you to define someone else's version of love, is it. People are going to eat meat, regardless. Some people can compartmentalise and separate their Shitzu from their Steak.

Therefore is it wrong to kill and eat them?

Maybe. Maybe not.

I just know that in order for me to live then something has to die. And I'm honestly okay with that.

Our "canine" teeth are hardly big or powerful enough to kill a cow and rip out it's flesh

Probably not. However I'd imagine we would have no trouble using our canine teeth to crunch up an insect or a fish.

Hmm, I think I might go pescetarian.

aw look, you accidentally got it right in your title, and then totally arseways in your post!

Sweet.

I love rare breed sheep, I have a flock and look after them as pets. If we didn't eat the ram lambs they would kill each other in the field, fighting for mating rights. The only way to care about rare breed farm animals is to eat them.

Hmm I think you're on dodgy ground lecturing people about the resources used to raise meat if you are raising horses simply for pleasure. Even more so if you keep dogs and cats.

I think keeping pets is worse than eating meat though. Pets are basically living toys and carnivorous ones are just a waste of meat really.

And finally, what about the animals who die because their habitats are destroyed to make space for grain farming?

Far more likely to be soya which is far more likely to be eaten by vegetarians, so actually, that's your fault!

Couldn't live with rats and mice in the house, don't like wasps or mosquito's either, so while I class myself as mostly an animal lover, it's obviously only the attractive animals that I love.

Do you honestly think plants don't feel pain?

Last time I checked, meat eaters eat plants too.

But to answer your question, no I really don't.

I know that these inconvenient facts will be ignored by vegans and vegetarians, but facts, are....facts.

www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-and-smell-and-respond

www.vice.com/en_au/article/xd74nd/we-asked-a-botanist-how-sure-science-is-that-plants-cant-feel-pain-302

and regarding grass: "Few moments evoke a sense of summer like catching a whiff of freshly cut grass. For many people, it's a pleasant sign that warmer temperatures are here to stay. For the grass, however, this scent signals an entirely different story.

The smell we associate with freshly cut grass is actually a chemical distress call, one used by plants to beg nearby critters to save them from attack (usually it's an affront by insects, but in this case, it's lawnmower blades)." - science.howstuffworks.com/life/botany/plants-feel-pain.htm

Just because plants don't 'move' doesn't mean they don't feel pain. That is the great hypocrisy of vegans and vegetarians.

I love animals, I don't think it's as black and white as if you're an animal lover you can't eat meat. Lots of people don't consciously think about where their meat comes from lots of people want to eat meat and are concerned about the welfare of the animal allowing them to feel they've done their bit when it comes to eating meat.

I'm a recent veggie, I've never enjoyed beef and really only ate chicken but as time has gone on I don't feel I can be a part of the meat eating culture. My dh loves meat and he loves animals. I'm not going to tell someone because they choose to eat meat they can't love animals.

So I take it you don't eat plants then Mint?