To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

@Lweji and I don't consider humans and animals to be the same, so your arguments about overpopulation are pretty gross. Overpopulation is a serious issue but it would never be acceptable to cull humans under any circumstances.

What terrible consequence will come from an infestation of rats & mice? There is no bubonic plague these days, so what are these terrible consequences?

I think meat is an essential part of my diet. I think that I benefit healthwise from eating modest amounts. I like the taste of some meat in the same way that I like the taste of some vegetables and fruit.

I do love some animals (as to say I love all of them is absurd) and I do eat meat. I am also very keen on animal welfare. To me all of those beliefs and convictions are entirely compatible

If your line inflicts pain and suffering on the majority of animals for the sake of your tastes, you're not an animal lover.

If I eat cows, pigs, sheep, rabbits, some fowl, ducks, a selected number of fish species, a selected number of mollusks, and a few other animals, it's hardly a majority of animals.

And the animals raised for meat don't endure more pain or suffering than animals in the wild.
I'm sure a cow killed in an abattoir suffers less than a deer stalked and killed by a pack of wolves.

How much does an animal need to be sentient for you to care? I don't think any animal should be killed unless there are good reasons (I.e. to prevent more significant further). That's true of everything - mosquitoes, rats, mice, horses, cows. I don't think you have to love every animal to the same degree - everyone has favourites. But that doesn't mean it's ok to happily accept the wanton and unnecessary destruction of a species just because it's not one of your favourites.

We've been through a major drought where I live. Cows raised for meat enjoyed fresh grass and enough food and water.
Animals in the wild, didn't.
I don't consider that suffering and carry no guilt about eating those cows.

OP posting on here you are probably using devices and technology made from animal carcasses.
Stearates, glue, additives to types on cars and buses, telephones, modems TVs all contain animal carcass products.

I assume you use none of those?

@MargoLovebutter in a situation where no harm is caused, the population doesn't need controlled. That's why I said earlier that any population control needs to be based on careful consideration and knowledge of the specific situation.

Infestations can cause illness - rodents carry fleas and ticks which can be very dangerous, especially to children. In such a circumstance I would imagine peat control could prevent serious further harm.

I don't accept that you can truly care about welfare and eat meat, knowing that it is so detrimental to both the animals you eat and the animals killed because your meat consumption leads to the destruction of their habitats.

I got attacked last time I posted on a similar thread but YANBU OP.

But that doesn't mean it's ok to happily accept the wanton and unnecessary destruction of a species just because it's not one of your favourites.

What do you mean?
Nobody wants to destroy cows as a species.

I don't think any animal should be killed unless there are good reasons (I.e. to prevent more significant further).

Harm, you mean? But the problem is how to define good reasons. Who defines what is significant harm? There are no significant mosquito-borne diseases in the UK, so do you think it's ok for you to kill mosquitoes simply because they bite you? Do you let them live and breed?

Haven't RTFT, but a vegetarian who owns a carnivorous pet can't claim to be an animal lover either, because dogs and cats need to eat meat. So either you are killing other animals so your pet can eat, or you are forcing a carnivorous animal to be vegetarian, which is extremely cruel (and unhealthy).

If you don't want to contribute to the death of animals then i hope you don't own any pets that require meat to survive?

Also, if we're talking welfare & wellbeing surely keeping any pet goes against that because you don't give the pet the choice to be free?.

@speakout I presume you haven't read the thread, but I've pointed out previously that I don't think it's easy - or even necessarily possible - to live an entirely cruelty free life. I actually have no idea if there are animal products in my iPhone but I know there are in other things that I use (vaccines, for example). But I make very conscious decisions to use as little as possible, and accept that for some things there simply aren't alternatives.

Not being able to reduce consumption of animal products by 100% doesn't mean we shouldn't reduce them by the possible 95%. And those who are reducing by as much as possible are a hell of a lot less hypocritical than those who don't try to reduce at all but still call themselves animal lovers...

@mustbemad17 my horses are very much vegetarians and before anyone asks, all my tack is synthetic not leather!

And those who are reducing by as much as possible are a hell of a lot less hypocritical than those who don't try to reduce at all but still call themselves animal lovers...

But even people lovers don't love all people.

But, to be clear, your gripe is against people calling themselves "animal lovers", right? Do you think anyone can call themselves that? Or do you think nobody can?

I'd be worried if your horses ate meat, i will admit 😂😂 but it stands as a valid point for anyone arguing that humans not eating meat would stop animals dying

@Lweji I have never encountered a mosquito where I live (god bless Scotland) and while if I did I would possibly reflexively slap the odd one without thinking, I don't consider this the same as destroying them on a mass scale.

I don't like wasps either, but I trap them with a glass and chuck them out the window. Same with spiders. It's all the same principle.

But you do realise that keeping horses also leads to destruction of habitats for other animals?

I don't accept that you can truly care about welfare and eat meat, knowing that it is so detrimental to both the animals you eat and the animals killed because your meat consumption leads to the destruction of their habitats.

And do you think your horses are happier than cows raised for meat?

Think about it. Cows raised virtually free. Horses that have to be ridden by humans and do their bidding.
Who suffers less?

@Lweji people who don't love other people don't usually advocate for killing those other people - and if they do, we say they are monsters. So what's your point?

I actually think 'animal lovers' is a weird term but I see it used all the time by people who claim it of themselves but eat meat and that is absolutely hypocritical. You're maybe a dog lover or a cat lover, but you aren't an animal lover if you're happy for them to suffer and be killed so you can eat them.

So, would you consider or accept a vegetarian that keeps a dog as an animal lover?
Are you an animal lover?

TooTrueToBeGood "Can't vegetarians be vegetarians without feeling compelled to openly judge everyone else?"
Unfortunately, no. Or at least, vegans can't. Vegetarians aren't so bad. Vegans are mostly dangerously militant.

How are my horses destroying habitats? They eat grass, or hay grown from our field. Occasionally they will have some form of cereal but we're talking a couple of hundred grams every few weeks - a statistically insignificant quantity compared to what is required for the meat industry. Amazonian rainforest isn't being torn down by the acre to give my horses 6kg of cereals per year.

My horses have never had their babies torn from them, have never been pumped full of chemicals and hormones, arent overfed by force, aren't dragged to the slaughterhouse within a couple of years of birth. They live free in a field, in a herd. You know yourself there is no comparison.

Gotta love a sweeping generalisation eh @mintchocchip04

I honestly don't know if I'm an animal lover. As I said, that's a weird term that I don't think has a clear definition. But I do my best to avoid causing harm to animals, and I don't happily accept that they should suffer to suit me. And I think that as a bare minimum if you are going to claim to love animals, you can't participate in an industry which is so harmful to them.

depends on the animal really. Id say you weren't much of a dog lover if you ate dogs

My dd loves pig's and won't eat them.

MyOtherUsernameisaPun I could say the same about plant and garden lovers and pulling vegetables and plants out to eat. Do you honestly think plants don't feel pain? They open their flowers in sunshine. They breathe, they feel pain. It is said that the 'smell' of fresh cut lawn is because when grass is cut, it bleeds and that scent is a warning of danger.