To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

So do humans, when the need arises.

MyOtherUsernameisaPun - I thought your issues was with the death & suffering of animals in all forms. Surely all those people who claim to be animal lovers but telephone their local authority about rat infestations are just as guilty about making animals suffer, as people who eat them?

I'm an animal lover, in that I love to eat their meat.
(well, some of them)

I also love and eat plants.

Ha, I completely agree with you and it drives me mad when certain relatives post on Facebook denouncing animal cruelty right above a picture of their Sunday roast! Madness.

@MyOtherUsernameisaPun

🐱

I love trees and it causes me anguish to see them cut down. However, I use products made of paper, and have wooden furniture in my house. Does that make me a hypocrite too?

I am a meat eater and several family members have become vegans...all of them say they have never felt healthier...I am considering trying to give it up.

I can honestly say I care for animals, I love my pets etc. However I also care for what I eat aswell, and I enjoy eating meat. I wouldn't eat my dog, but pigs & cows etc aren't pets so you don't develop feelings for them in the same way. Humans are also natural carnivores, were meat eaters. Vegetarians are waisting their time protesting against eating meat, as it will never stop. Instead they should be putting more time into protesting against how some animals are treated before being sent to slaughter. Some have very miserable lives, when I personally think they should have the best life possible before that day arrives. Some milking cows for example are kept caged up for their entire lives. I will only buy free range eggs because I disagree with caged hens. I do have a heart but like many others I am also a carnivore.

Pass I suppose that depends on if you buy products made from a sustainable source, therefore ensuring the survival or trees or not!

@MargoLovebutter I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I don't like the idea of killing rats and mice. But I can accept that there might be occasions where not doing so causes more harm and suffering - for example, because it leads to disease. In those cases I can see why pest control is objectively justifiable - because huge harm could be caused without it. I'd still rather see alternatives (such as addressing the causes of infestation) but that isn't always possible.

Similarly, I can see the benefit of certain kinds of culling - red deer for example. They can be hugely destructive to environments and so lead to the decimation of other species. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have hunted their predators to extinction. But since that ship has sailed, controlled culling has objective justification.

I see no objective justification for eating meat (save medical necessity). Unlike the the examples above, the meat industry involves breeding animals for the specific purpose of slaughtering them for food. It is unique in being both cruel and unnecessary.

I don't think you can be an animal lover and eat meat. I think you can love particular animals (e.g. pets) and be a meateater, but not animals in general. It's not just about the individual pig or cow or whatever that you're eating, but about the ecological impacts of meat production and their adverse influence on the environment, which affects all kinds of sentient living creatures.

@passmetheloppers it depends - if your furniture is made from a 500 year old mahogany cut from the heart of the rainforest, then yes! But if it's a nice sustainable pine, no

Humans are also natural carnivores

You mean omnivores?

Nobody who says they are an animal lover loves all animals.

@Lweji depends what you mean by love - I don't love eels in the sense that I'm not going to get emotionally attached to one, but I still wouldn't accept it being hurt or tortured or killed on my behalf.

Pleasedontgo omnivore, carnivore, the definition of those are both meat eaters I guess! But omnivore if that's the correct human version yes!

'Animal lover' is a useless descriptor, anyway; it's subjective when applied to oneself, and meaningless applied to someone else.

I still wouldn't accept it being hurt or tortured or killed on my behalf.

What about an intestinal worm?

Lentils and fucking nuts!

I have several vegetarians in my family (dm and dsis being two of them) and friendship group, and have met many more over the course of my 40-something years. Not ONE person has shit on me for eating meat and i don't give two hoots why they became vegetarians themselves or take the piss out of them.

I eat meat and i enjoy it. I love animals and could coo over them all day. I don't eat fish simply because it tastes of rotting meat. I don't eat shellfish cos they float about waste pipes! No, really, i don't lile the taste.

We limit ourselves to two meat dishes a week but have ham sandwiches frequently and cured meat - we're in Spain, it's hard to miss the chorizo and fuet and jamon serrano etc, so damn good.

I think i may have been Ron Swanson in a former life

myother - would you agree with people eating the meat sourced from culled red deer? how about eating things like rabbit that has been shot for control reasons?

No, the definition of 'omnivore' is not the same thing as 'carnivore'. An obligate carnivore HAS to eat meat to survive healthily. An omnivore does not. They can get all the nutrients they need from plant sources as well as from animal sources. The point is that it's a smart biological way of ensuring that energy can be obtained from a wide range of potential foodstuffs. The fact that humans are omnivores does not mean that the require meat - quite the opposite, in fact.

Would it be ok to eat meat from animals that died from natural causes?

MyOtherUsernameisaPun you started with the premise that meat eaters can't really love animals. That was the start of your argument, that if you eat meat you don't really love animals.

However, you are now saying that culling and pest control is ok for animal lovers. Cute bambi red deer need culling because they're destructive to the environment - but just don't eat them?!

Rats and mice (that are a species that people also keep as pets), can be pest controlled, because it could cause a bigger issue if that's not done - but again don't eat them and you can still be an animal lover?!

I don't get your logic?!!!!!!!

The fact that humans are omnivores does not mean that the require meat - quite the opposite, in fact.

We evolved to eat meat, as well as vegetables, from largely vegetarian ancestors.
I don't argue with evolution.

I don’t really care what you think.

I don’t question why you’re a vegetarian, why would I? It’s your choice. Similarly I don’t expect to defend my choice to eat meat. So you enjoy your nut roast or whatever, I’ll tuck into my bacon sandwich and everyone’s happy, no?

Vegetarians etc come on to these threads and start harping on about how meat eaters clearly feel the need to defend their reasons for eating meat. IME that only happens when the vegetarians get on their high horses and start asking stupid questions and making proclamations such as how you can’t be an animal lover if you eat meat yada yada yada.

If you were so happy with your choices you wouldn’t feel the need to question the choices of others, you would just get on with your own life. .