To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

I just wish people would be a bit more honest about it and admit that if they eat meat they're not that fussed about animals

I did!

@multivac I don't actually disagree with you - since I became vegetarian I've become a lot more attuned to the horrors of the dairy industry and I'm moving towards being vegan as a result. I don't consume milk, yogurt or butter and I only have eggs from my mum's chickens who are totally free range and have the run of her massive garden. I don't eat cow's cheese anyway because it is a trigger for my IBS. I do still have honey on the odd occasion, and a woman close to my in laws keeps two pet goats and makes cheese from their milk, so I sometimes have that.

I think vegetarianism is a hell of a lot better than eating meat but I do think you can't claim it's a cruelty-free choice.

I thought I was going to like you when i read your thread title. Shame it was a typo. You’re coming across like an over-earnest 16 year old. Life is full of subtle differences of opinion and decisions that don’t stand up to logic. I am sure that some murderers loved other humans, but didn’t stop them murdering their specific victims did it?

But OP, if everyone turned to a plant based diet, there would have to be a hell of a lot more of said plants grown and farmed, to keep up with demand. Not just grains.

Also, we have some land that is left wild, and we still have to manage it by culling animals - just wild ones instead of bred ones. Otherwise, one species would completely take over, and other species would die as a result. Things like rabbits/pigeons/crows would still need to be kept on top of if the entire country went plant based, otherwise they would destroy half of the crops we were growing.

YABU. I know several farmers, and have been surrounded by farming my entire life. my DP has 400 cattle, 500 sheep and a few pigs. He and his family work incredibly long hours to look after them. They love the animals and they are looked after better than many humans. They are fed, the majority are out in big grassy fields all year round and their welfare is paramount.

when people bring up about having their young removed - yes of course they do. but a cow will bellow for a couple of hours then be quite content to say goodbye. They aren't people, they don't spend the next 18 years feeling a huge hole in their lives.

YABU and actually quite offensive. People i know work day and night for these animals, who wouldn't be bred, live and exist unless people wanted to eat meat. There are entire breeds of farm animals that are on the at risk register and the fact there is interest in them for eating purposes is the one thing keeping the breed alive. It is easy to judge (fancy, a judgy vegetarian. who would've thought!?!) but personally I think that there are huge amounts of meat eaters who care for animals. They choose to eat animals who have been reared in good conditions, lived locally and slaughtered humanly.

If I were you, I would reserve my judgement for the thoughtless people who profess to care about animals and get all up in arms about big game being slaughtered and dogs being tortured then go and buy 2 for £5 chickens, cheap meat and kebabs.

Me too storm

@UnicornRainbowColours sorry, but I think it's true. I don't see how you can be an animal lover and yet willingly cause animals to suffer. I don't think those things are compatible.

And I'm not perfect! Because I do sometimes eat dairy and I know that that is also harmful (which is why I'm cutting it out and heading towards being vegan). But I'll at least acknowledge the harm I'm doing and I'll adapt my lifestyle choices to stop doing it.

@Orlandointhewilderness I don't mind you thinking I'm being offensive but I stand by my point. There is no cruelty-free way to participate in the meat industry, whether as a producer or a consumer.

Just out of interest where do the non-killing animal lovers stand on the deaths of animals by local authority pest control then? Hundreds of thousands of rats & mice killed each year by LA pest control - what's being done about their suffering and death?

You're very welcome to tell me I don't really love animals because I eat meat.
I've found many vegetarians don't actually like people very much. And I've known vegetarians to be very caring about animals but treat their own family and friends like shit.
I chose to be a vegetarian 32 years ago because I did my own research. I don't need to be told the virtues of "grains" - been there, done that.

If I were you, I would reserve my judgement for the thoughtless people who profess to care about animals and get all up in arms about big game being slaughtered and dogs being tortured then go and buy 2 for £5 chickens, cheap meat and kebabs.

Quite.

@meel you simply have your figures wrong. If every person in the world became vegetarian tomorrow there would still be less grain required than what is currently needed to sustain the meat industry. This is because beef especially is hugely inefficient and takes a vast quantity of grain to produce a small amount of beef. Humans use grain far more efficiently (e.g. Extract far more calorific benefit) and so need far less to be nutritionally sustained than the equivalent mass of cattle. This is just a fact, you can google yourself if you don't believe me.

Culling is a different issue in my opinion - we don't breed animals for the specific purpose of culling them (save for perhaps game birds). Furthermore, culling isn't necessary in balanced habitats where there are sufficient predators - and the number one thing that improves predator numbers is not destroying their habitats for farming.

@MargoLovebutter personally I think it's a shame but I don't see it as the same issue - it's not like we're breeding rats and mice in vast and environmentally unsustainable numbers for the specific purpose of killing them, is it?

JessieMcJessie - agreed!

Love animals. Will coo over a lamb all day, everyday. But I will still go home and eat my minted lamb rack. In fact I'll eat it whilst staring at the cute baby lamb. Its life. Happens in the wild.

Preachy veggies like you, who start threads just to try and lord it over people, are the reasons veggies have such a bad name. I don't think many veggies will appreciate this thread.

MyOther Fair enough, we are all entitled to hold our own views. I just happen to think yours is wrong!
That wasn't your original question though - from that point I think that it is actually very very difficult to live a cruelty free life even from a vegetarian/vegan point of view. Everything we touch has an impact on the animal life of the planet, from obvious things like the palm oil in firelighters and countless products wiping out the rain forests to the rubbish in our oceans. The over population / changing populations and increased garden fencing has nearly wiped out hedgehogs, who have declined in number by 90% since the 1970s.

beef especially is hugely inefficient and takes a vast quantity of grain to produce a small amount of beef yeah but a steak is so much more delicious than lentils...

I’m talking about all plant based foods, not just grain.

I love animals. Especially covered in gravy.

@nesssie maybe you're just making your lentils wrong

@Orlandointhewilderness I agree, it's very difficult. But I think anything we can do must be good!

unless you're killing animals yourself I don't think you get to claim that the reason it's fine for you to eat meat is that you're at the top of the food chain

Well, that's male lions not at the top of the food chain then, since it's generally lionesses who do the hunting.

I’m a total weirdo then because I don’t really care about animals but I don’t eat meat

@meel me too. I'm using grain as a generic term, to cover all crops (cereals, grains, fruits, vegetables, pulses, legumes, nuts etc). It doesn't change the facts. Again you can google this yourself if you don't believe me. It was one of the things that surprised me most when I started considering going veggie a few years ago.

NotUmbongoUnchained - that's all the arguments out the window then!

@BadLad male lions do hunt as and when the need arises 🦁

@NotUmbongoUnchained now the cat's really among the pigeons!