To wish the EU would throw us a bone so we can cancel Brexit

[Crikeyisunderused]

They don't want us to leave. We don't want to leave. So what could Macron'n'Merkel offer us so we can say "go on, we'll stay together for the sake of the kids".

I still want to know who we are going to trade with after Brexit that we don't trade with already. No one ever answers this.

ANYONE ?

deecrepid You do realise don't you, well I hope you do, that the UK of GB and NI will still have to contribute post Brexit?

@frumpety I don’t know. Nobody knows. That’s the problem, there’s lots of maybes and possiblys but nothing concrete.

Trade is a big aspect that worries me. Taxes rising and making it harder to trade is a big concern.

@Childrenofthesun
^
this

Paul Dacre 🤢 - just been a little bit sick in my mouth

I know there are trade deals with South American countries but these were done on the back of being in the EU. Obviously, post Brexit the deals will have to be re negotiated.

Can anyone remind me how much we will continue to contribute and for how long after we leave the EU ? I am sure I saw something that said up to 25 years ?

"Soft Brexit" has been an option since day one. There are routes to compromise, routes Theresa May rejects. The EU doesn't need to 'throw us a bone'.

I think a question that never gets asked is what would have happened if remain had won? There's an assumption by remainers that if we could just cancel Brexit everything would be tranquil waters. It seems incredible to me. I don't think the anti EU feeling would have gone away. It might have got worse. I believe a narrow remain victory would have torn the country apart at least as much as the leave victory did. I just think fundamentally we were never that excited by the EU project and never going to be enthusiastic about getting more involved. We didn't want Schengen, we didn't want currency union....I understand the argument that a true EU enthusiast like Clegg would make that we should dig in and lead the EU and embrace ALL aspects of it fully but it felt to me that even most remainers were not arguing that, just a lukewarm "it's a hassle to leave". I'm not sure what the future would be if we did what the OP suggests.

"Soft Brexit" has been an option since day one. There are routes to compromise, routes Theresa May rejects. The EU doesn't need to 'throw us a bone'

I hear people saying this all the time but I don’t understand it. We have no leverage, none. The EU can make whatever terms it chooses because we have no way of bargaining beyond using Scottish waters for fishing, yet another lie from the Leave campaign and no way to force what the UK government wants.

Why anyone else thought we’d have leverage in this situation is beyond me.

OK, the only people that count in this debate are the people who voted - those that didn't don't get a say because they were quite happy to roll either way.

And out of the people that did vote, the majority voted to leave.

If you can't understand that then you have my sincerest pity & condescension.

If anyone is able to get today’s ‘All Out Politics’ (Sky) with Adam Boulton on catchup - there’s just been a very interesting debate on this topic with Chuka Umunna

if it’s not a surprise why wasn’t it dealt with before the referendum?

They couldn’t deal with it before the referendum because it had to be agreed with the EU and the EU wasn’t negotiating terms for Brexit until they knew it was happening. It’s not being done in isolation but is part of a whole of negotiations which all affect each other. And nobody would have bothered with the long, tricky sensitive negotiations which might be damaging to the peace process for a referendum which was expected to go to remain.

I’ve not said it’s either a surprise or simple.

And for the last time I mentioned the IRA because I said there was an irony that the threat of renewed hostilities from them might mean that Brexit is severely watered down and the English don’t get Home Rule.

I’ve made absolutely no comment on the moral rights or wrongs of that situation nor claimed either side was in the right or wrong. I’ve not made any comment on what should happen with the border. I’ve not given an opinion on what should be done or how. All I’ve done is noted the irony.

Any idea you have that I am calling for a hard border or complaining about unfairness on the English is entirely in your head.

Agree with Thymeout but it's all too far gone to slam on the brakes and reverse at this point I think. It was always much too complex to be put to a yes/no public vote but that's what happened and having run with it this long I don't see how they can just decide "actually, we've had a little re-think". There are still huge numbers who support Brexit, if it's divisive now I can only imagine the damage and ill feeling that would be caused by an about turn. I'm not convinced another public vote would address that as even if Remain won (and that can't be guaranteed) it's likely that would be by a slim majority just as the Leave win was.

It's a democratic right to be able to change your mind when circumstances change.

Yeah, but a country is a little bit different from deciding whether to go to Nandos or KFC for tea - you can't just chop & change on a whim (and it is a whim).

I feel quietly confident that if Remain had won by the same margin they'd be totally against another referendum.

And that's where the perception of "whining" comes in. It ain't pretty people - have some decorum!!

If you can't understand that then you have my sincerest pity & condescension.

Gosh, thanks. Fortunately I’m quite capable of understanding the statistics relating to an advisory referendum.

It was always much too complex to be put to a yes/no public vote

Agreed - you only have to look at half the threads on MN to see how little people understand and how stupid people can be.

And MNers consider themselves to be the intelligent ones (hah!).

We should have left it to the MPs to decide - that's why we elect them & that's what democracy is - not letting every Tom, Dick & Harriet have a say over everything....

Ground Hog Day.

The OP is Punxsutawny Phil and I claim £5.00

If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.

Remind me again, who said that?

Reading the comments on this thread have exponentially cemented my opinion on the need for a People’s Vote on the terms...keeping everything crossed

@Buteo 😂

think I’m capable too

We should have left it to the MPs to decide - that's why we elect them & that's what democracy is - not letting every Tom, Dick & Harriet have a say over everything

I love this kind of indignant tosh.

But that might get UKIP a life line Luisa27 which is what this government doesn't want.

I don't think the anti EU feeling would have gone away. It might have got worse. I don't think so. Beyond low-level grumbling and headlines about EU immigrants getting all the jobs/benefits/houses, I had never seen much anti-EU feeling in this country before the referendum. Not to the extent where I could imagine people taking to the streets to protest about it. I imagine things would have gone on pretty much as before. If I'm being very optimistic, I can perhaps imagine the government taking a long hard look at how narrow the Remain result was and grasped that people were resentful of their poverty/lack of jobs/falling-apart towns/generally being left behind, and tried to do something about it.

I just think fundamentally we were never that excited by the EU project... We didn't want Schengen, we didn't want currency union
We didn't HAVE any of those things. We had a lot of concessions while still benefitting from being an EU member. The status quo was certainly better than any of the options we now seem to be circling around.

Illustriously - Yet I recall Nigel Farage on results night, when he thought that Remain was going to win, calling for another referendum because it was so close.

And both Ireland and Holland, I dimly remember, had the chance to vote twice about various treaties.

It's a lot different from choosing between Nando's and KFC. That's a whim. Trying to stop a car driving full speed over a cliff is a matter of life and death for the British economy. We haven't left yet, but California has just overtaken us in the league tables.

But the majority DO want to leave. The tories said they would let us vote on it if we voted in their party. We voted them in. They then honoured their promise and allowed us to vote on it. We did. It's called a democracy