To wish the EU would throw us a bone so we can cancel Brexit

[Crikeyisunderused]

They don't want us to leave. We don't want to leave. So what could Macron'n'Merkel offer us so we can say "go on, we'll stay together for the sake of the kids".

Sorry trying to do too many things at once , so basically the people that Hungary are trying to control are people who have reached mainland Europe , but who are not originally from mainland Europe and who are made up of refugees and asylum seekers and people some describe as 'economic' migrants.
So not the type of migrant who come to the UK under FOM to work. Or the type of migrant who comes to the UK to work on a visa.

@frumpety aye that’s it. I can’t find anything that says Hungary and Poland are trying to restrict freedom of movement within the EU for EU workers, it’s all asylum seekers that they’re focused on.

Frumpety & Smeddum:
Thank you for explaining.

I think the issue with asylum seekers that concerns many people is the ID aspect of it, because every country needs to know who is living there, and whether or not they are a risk. In much the same way as criminal records/CRB checks do with people who are born here/have been here a long time.

I’d like better checks, because there are a minority who do commit awful crimes, and some who do manipulate the system (pretending to be children when they’re adults etc). But then no system is flawless, and banning asylum seekers/immigrants en masse isn’t the answer either.

It is possible to put sensible checks in without using hateful terminology or being racist/xenophobic. Unfortunately not something that seems to be achievable, but it should be.

ID cards and address checks as done by many other countries would solve a lot of issues. Even EU citizens shouldn't stay in another country if they are not working/studying/self supporting for more than 3 months. The UK is useless at knowing who is where and what their status is.

Hungary are trying to control are people who have reached mainland Europe , but who are not originally from mainland Europe and who are made up of refugees and asylum seekers and people some describe as 'economic' migrants

In Hungary/Poland’s case I would say it’s more to do with skin colour/religion.

As far as i’m aware we have never and will never use that criteria in this country.

@Mother
I haven't used Calais but several other ports. Groups of young men in hoodies hanging around supermarket carparks is very intimidating. My vehicle gets 'looked over' each time and I have watched as a couple of 'hopefuls' were escorted from a lorry where they were hiding by border security then taken away by the Gendarmes. Because Calais was so prominent and in the media it has been 'tidied up' but those trying to get to the UK illegally have simply changed tactics and locations.

We need to be honest. Most of the people trying to get into the country are economic migrants. Not many people actually believe they are "refugees" anymore.

In Hungary/Poland’s case I would say it’s more to do with skin colour/religion

It's religion. Their history involves living under and fighting the Ottoman empire, something that the typical British person or Western European person has little to no knowledge about.

After their experiences of the Ottoman empire and then the Soviet empire no wonder they they and keep their country how they want too, not how others think they should.

My comments were at least vaguely relevant to the discussion at that time yesterday and your comments about Calais were different to what is seen at other ports. Nothing more than that really.
What is far more important is/was that so many fail to understand the actual role of the EU parliament and are assuming that the UK is being dictated to by them. The laws that the people of the UK are objecting to were ratified by UK politicians. Opt outs were permissible or simply use the 'kick it into the long grass' technique.
The Windrush episode highlights the way that governments can manipulate situations by making a noise about it at one point then quietly forgetting about it and moving on to some next excitement in the hope that the majority will forget. 'Its a good day to bury bad news'.

Mother,

Sorry, I don't really get your point.

Yep. Ottoman Empire. And a huge case of a Western Europe centric interpretation of history.

At the moment western liberals have their knickers very much in a twist about the Empires of Western European countries and the evils that came with it and the need for atonement.

This very much overlooked that there was also an Empire in the East which also carried out a great deal of abuse and oppression and left deep scars. Ignorance of it here doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t matter and it is a hypocrisy for us to fetishise the suffering of some people under Empire while dismissing others because they don’t currently fit in with some people’s idea of what the oppressed should look like or be.

It would be the equivalent of a mass exodus of French to Algeria which if you know the history of the Pied Noirs you know they would be made even less welcome than the movements of people have been in Hungary.

I for one stand by the people of Hungary, Poland in their choice to keep their country Christian.

Given their history I can certainly understand it - for me it just highlights the whole EU issue, one size fits all cannot and does not work.

I'm saying they are not different to refugees

Quick question, why are the majority young men?

Uk has taken very few refugees, more Brexiteer scare mongering akin to the “Turkey is joining” poster.

Leavers are happy to talk about what they perceive to be happening in Eastern Europe but silent in what brexit is doing to the uk economically now.

Haven't read the full thread but here's the rub.

The democratic will of the people, demonstrated through a referendum, was to leave the EU.

Ireland, North and Republic, also held a referendum in 1998, in which more than 70% and 90% respectively agreed to implement the Good Friday Agreement. (This is their democratic will). The UK government was a signatory. It is an International Peace Treaty.

The Brexit referendum was incompatible - the GFA depended upon the common arrangements between the two states. It could only ever breach the terms of the GFA. If the UK wanted to leave the EU it should have sorted this out first.

The GFA cannot easily be renegotiated - it was a masterclass in negotiation, took many years and followed thousands of deaths. As a child I lived in the middle of it - I saw people die before I was old enough to even know what it was all about. My children have been spared that distress. It has changed my life and my children's futures. This is massively important.

I am an Irish citizen. I am therefore, by default an EU citizen. I was born and continue to live in NI. I do not now, and never have, owned a British passport. It is my right, as asserted within the GFA, to identify as Irish, British or both. I respect everyone's choices. My choice impacts on no one else, but Brexit impacts on my choice.

Christianity should be about helping people, especially those in worse circumstances than your own

Hungary and Poland took in 10's of thousands of Ukrainian refugees when the rest of Western Europe took hardly any.

The majority of the voting public Elendon. What's hard to understand?. Everyone walked to their polling station and voted with a cross. The majority (the greater percentage of those voting) put a cross next to leave. Get it? Democracy! Clever stuff that

Stop with your damned facts. They're determined to have a good blub about it & let us know how miserable they are.

They'll have run out of tears in a decade or two (maybe)...

A very tiny majority though, against a very massive minority. Such a huge decisions should never have gone through on a 48/52 swing.