To wish the EU would throw us a bone so we can cancel Brexit

[Crikeyisunderused]

They don't want us to leave. We don't want to leave. So what could Macron'n'Merkel offer us so we can say "go on, we'll stay together for the sake of the kids".

But to be a radical centrist in all this, the report is on reported crime, and much like the rest of europe there is rise in fear and a common issue is police numbers being cut and general police apathy to deal with petty crime so people are apparently reporting less.

One of my work colleagues is dutch and she mentioned about this, where a woman tracked down her own rapist and the police still did nothing.

nos.nl/artikel/2176975-vrouw-speurt-haar-aanrander-zelf-op.html

Basically when everyone tries to blame the Torys for the police, the same is happening all across Europe at the minute

German crime rate has actually dropped and is the lowest since 1992, I was reading about it today, here is the english version

There was a worrying rise in anti-Semitic crimes though, culprits are mostly far right but a few of the cases were by so called ‘imported anti-semites’. Hopefully Germany have a handle on it.

Metoo the only criteria I have for any young man dating my daughter is that he is nice to her , but then I am a proper liberal me , not elite , but might be if I ever win the sodding lottery

I don’t have criteria for dating my daughter beyond kindness and respect tbh.

I think it’s pretty grim if someone does.

There was a worrying rise in anti-Semitic crimes though, culprits are mostly far right but a few of the cases were by so called ‘imported anti-semites’.

Germany the same as most of Europe has a real problem with the far right, its the proper far right as well, not what people label some movements in the UK.

The UK is incredibly tolerant and does not have the real far right contingent that the majority of the EU, but the crime rates are dopping throughout europe and yet the same issues arise, reluctance to report because of police apathy, not enough bobbies on the beat, funding etc

Germany is in a bit of conundrum recently, far right violence has dropped significantly and far left violence has risen (although they did have the G20 riots) and the are problems that are directly caused by Merkel's open arms policy is coming to light, so much so that they are having discussions on how they can effectively deport illegal immigrants because they are kind of neutered, which was highlighted by the right when the initial immigration rush started.

The EU is not some eutopia and we are the backwater, and I am a remainer.

Fear is an interesting thing isn't it , it seems that the media and political parties in recent times has taken a vested interest in ramping up the fear levels in this country , especially wrt the so called indigenous population ( natives I think someone elsewhere on this thread referred to them as ).

The question is what do you fear the most ? I see people in my job facing what some would think is their greatest fear , death. Everyone of them faces that particular fear differently, it is unique to each of them. The end game is still very much the same from a biological perspective , but the journey is very different for each of those people.

We are all the same and at the same time unique, try to make the journey along the relatively short path we call life, a kind one. The regrets at the end of life, I have seen, have been about division , unfairness , unkindness. Think about that.

Fear is an interesting thing isn't it , it seems that the media and political parties in recent times has taken a vested interest in ramping up the fear levels in this country , especially wrt the so called indigenous population ( natives I think someone elsewhere on this thread referred to them as ).

It is not unique or confined to the UK at all, to say that a countries media outlet are just ramping up the countries natives fears is dismissing the polarisation of politics in general, we have a fairly balanced press and yet all sides will jump on any crime and fudge statistic etc to score political points.

As an example, take the russian interference situation in America. Everyone knows russia shitposted which may have helped him win the presidency (how far up it actually goes is what some are clinging onto), but at the same time it is proven that Russian bots where shitposting in support of activist movements like BLM and AntiFA

Equally, Cambridge Analytica, when Obama utilised the exact same strategy it was seen as being groundbreaking and reaching potential candidates in the 21st century, if the SNP or Milliband used them (as they both wanted to) it would still be seen in that limelight, as they ended up helping out a controversial leave vote it is looked at completely differently

Polarisation is the issue, when people think its quirky and fun to say they could never be friends with a tory etc you know that propaganda is working across the board

I listen and try to understand. But I can't as there are so few logical arguments. Even the issue about migrant workers - the UK has the wherewithal to control this even within EU law but does/did nothing. Now there is the Windrush scandal. The whole atmosphere seems to have gone Nazi germany - it doesn;t matter whose these people are, what they have done, what they have paid into our systems, how they are part of our communities etc - we want them gone now.

The EU was meant to be part of the instrument for peace. We trade, we get along, we travel. I was born in the 60s. Foreign travel was quite exotic then. It's not anymore. How anyone can see that removing the rights for our children to travel and work in the same way we have been able to do as a positive thing is beyond me. Small minded fuckwits. And that is without all the rest of it. It enfuriates me.

I return monthly to the UK from Calais. There is very little excitement there anymore since the jungle has been removed, and I have been searched i.e. boot opened, once in 4 years. Normally once every 3/4 times I get swabbed for explosives. Im not sure what your point is with this statement.

Unless your driving a truck that has always been the case, migrants do not target cars and the border guards know this.

You could have gone for a better gotcha argument than that.

Good point Lurker , much better put than my own ever so slightly ecclesiastical musings , will blame that on too much sun over a Bank holiday

We could just hold the referendum again in a couple of years and let demography do its work.

There's something inherently unfair about an effectively irreversible decision which will disproportionately affect the lives of the people who want it least.

I listen and try to understand. But I can't as there are so few logical arguments. Even the issue about migrant workers - the UK has the wherewithal to control this even within EU law but does/did nothing.

This type of conversation is revisionist, before the referendum any talk of implementing some european countries policies where loudly derided as being anti immigrant.

This type of revisionist is now muddying the waters, the people speaking out of wanting limits on immigration in line with the EU was generally brushed of as nothing more than a swivel eyed loon, now everyone saying they would be happy with it isn't strictly true, hence why leave won.

I was in another vehicle, but whatever

So there was no point in saying you only had your car searched once in 4 years?

There is a reason why the fences has been extended and the jungle cleared.

As I said you could have gone for many other gotcha's, so yeah, whatever...

Justanotherlurker - 👍👍 for your recent posts. There is so much in there which would be good to discuss, however, Theybuiltthepyramids immediately posts ‘small minded fuckwits’ and ‘Nazi Germany’ so I’m off and out.

Theybuiltthepyramids re. Windrush, of course it matters who they are, quite rightly when this came to light there was a countrywide outcry and now action is being taken. As a country we said no that’s not acceptable and kicked up a stink as an injustice was being done. Hopefully now it will be resolved for the people who have been/could have been affected.

If we are forced to stay in the EU as prisoners then we will have to bring it down from within. Veto everything, increased destabilisation, no compliance. We will not accept being ruled by an EU dictatorship.

LOL. You are hilarious.

Still no answer to my 40 years and no plan question. Most large scale endeavours require a plan of some sort. Shame that those who campaigned so tirelessly haven't got one , or it would be more correct to say that those with such plans are being roundly ignored by the Government, thinking of the North's.
A government that is under siege from its own party members and from that other P word ( a nod to lurkers polarisation ) , populism.

Even the issue about migrant workers - the UK has the wherewithal to control this even within EU law but does/did nothing.

If EU countries are allowed to control the number of migrant workers, why are Poland and Hungary in trouble with the EU for controlling numbers in their countries?

Dapple I thought it was refugee numbers they were controlling , not migrant workers ?

If EU countries are allowed to control the number of migrant workers, why are Poland and Hungary in trouble with the EU for controlling numbers in their countries?

They’re not. They are in trouble for not taking in asylum seekers as agreed. Asylum seekers/refugees are not the same as migrant workers.

or asylum seekers ?

Actually I think the confusion between refugees and migrants is key here. Because a lot of people don’t understand the difference, and just make snap judgements.