To think DD wasn’t unreasonable not to give up reserved seat?

[jasminajasminda]

Dd17 was getting the train from London to Edinburgh yesterday to visit her sister at uni (she’s just finished her internal school year 12 exams, and lessons don’t start again until Wednesday).

We obviously reserved her a seat. She arrived, got on the train, and sat down in her seat. The train was very busy, and a few minutes after the train started moving, a middle aged woman with a walking stick, having apparently wandered through several carriages (dd was in the front carriage) without finding a seat, looked around dd’s Carriage, then came up to her and asked her to move as she needed a seat (pointedly making a big deal of her walking stick). When dd pointed out that she had reserved that seat, and there was no way she was giving up her seat on a four hour train journey, the woman told her that she was young, and therefore didn’t need a seat as much as she did.

At this dd put on her headphones, and listened to music and ignored her. The woman eventually huffed and left the carriage. Dd said that she noticed a few other passengers giving her (dd) dirty looks throughout the journey.

Was dd being unreasonable?

I would have been very disappointed in my DD if she had not given up her seat in that situation. I'm shocked by how many others on here think otherwise. Perhaps the lady needed to get somewhere urgently and wasn't able to book a seat in advance. I hate the way it is assumed that ill or disabled people are taking advantage. Why not assume they are telling the truth and bloody well try and do the right thing?

Besides which, an able bodied 17 yr old girl is far more able to gather up their belongings and walk up and down the train looking for another seat than someone who needs to use a walking stick. Those trains are long!

Finally, I've done that same journey from London many times (up to Oxenholme anyway) and yes the trains are usually stuffed in London, but seats usually become available further up the line.

You don't pay for a seat.

I’m glad it’s not just me who would be pissed off if my kid had to sit on the floor because someone with an inflated sense of entitlement had threatened or challenged him to give up the seat i’d booked and paid for

Fhs, sitting on your suitcase or on the floor for a few stops or even an hour or so is hardly going to kill an able bodied 17 year old is it? Much easier for them to do it than a middle-aged person, or a middle-aged person with a stick? Are we teaching our children about kindness any more or is it all about 'me" "me" "me"?

I would have been very disappointed in my DD if she had not given up her seat in that situation. I'm shocked by how many others on here think otherwise.
What's the point in being able to reserve a seat, then?
Surely if the other woman needed a seat, she should have reserved her own? How far was she travelling? If she had an issue, she should have got hold of the conductor.

OP I cannot see your opinion on your dd's reaction to the lady's request?

At the end of the day, saying she should have reserved a seat is pointless as the thing is - she hadn't done so. She was in a position of being stuck with no seat and it is unlikely from the description that she would be able to sit on the floor and so was facing the position of having to get off the train that he had paid for. I would have given up my seat without needing to be asked and I would be very disappointed if my children didn't do the same. It is nice to be nice.

jedediah

That's nothing to be proud of, is it? When you are old and not as able-bodied as you are now, I hope people don't treat you with the same contempt you just expressed.

I'm in two minds with this.

Firstly I am disabled, you couldn't tell by looking at me. If it was me I would have reserved a seat. Just because someone is disabled doesn't mean they can't be a CF! It doesn't give us the automatic right to demand something off someone else. I do think that she picked on your dd purely because or her age- she was an 'easy' target to ask/demand of, rather than another adult.

Secondly, I have two ds's, they've been brought up to open doors for women with prams, someone that's struggling to get though, an elderly person. To offer up their seats if someone appears to need it more than them. However, the amount of times they don't even get a thank you for doing it is unbelievable. Some people are just so entitled.

So I can fully understand and I agree on one hand that your dd shouldn't have, but then there's that part of me that if that had been one of my ds's I would be really disappointed in them, because they know how much I struggle, and that looks can be deceiving. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Tamsin Many people have situations where they've had to travel owing to a family emergency when they can't reserve in advance. . And knowing that route, conductors aren't always easy to find; particularly if you have to walk with a stick when searching up and down the entire length of the train.

Also, in general, very few people like to draw attention to themselves and ask for a seat unless they really need it. How awful to be refused and then ignored. At the very least the op's daughter could have said, " take my seat for now and I'll go and find the conductor to try and sort something out". To put on her headphones and ignore the woman was very impolite and unhelpful.

I used to be a fully able bodied person - now I’m one of those annoying people with an invisible disability. I have to say I do understand why the daughter in this situation didn’t want to stand for 4 hours! When someone got on in a situation like this I’ve a) asked where they are going and if it’s an hour or so just given up my seat and b) seen if I can switch with someone else after standing for a portion of the journey. If neither of those were options I think I would try and find the conductor.

Ultimately, yes the lady should have reserved a seat, and/or talked to station staff etc but I would much rather put myself through discomfort for a few hours than live with a long term illness.

It sounds like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other here, as it’s also not nice to just pick on one person - if I need a seat I announce it and ask the carriage at large. Yes, it’s not what I would choose in an ideal world, but I can’t expect ideal - I have to accept that if I want a seat I need to ask for one, and if I ask a specific person I risk pushing them to do something they don’t feel able to do.

I’m assuming she was travelling on virgin, in which case there are specifically allocated disability seats by the buffet. The woman should have made herself known to the staff who would have found her a seat.

Even if the lady couldn't have reserved a seat for whatever reason, she should have asked people in the not-reserved seats. I wouldn't expect anyone to give up their seat for a 4-hour journey!

It's an awkward situation, and I don't think the woman was a CF, but she's an adult and she could have done any number of things, including asking more people, asking someone to get a member of staff, alerting staff on the platform before she boarded and going to the non-reserved section.

And as others have said, those giving dirty looks should have given up their seats - they're probably of the same mind that someone young should have to do it rather than them!

Plus we don't know the ladies situation. I'm the first to admit that I can be out and ok for 2 hours or so, but then my morphine starts wearing off and the pain kicks in. When that does I do become a right cow. Purely because I can't concentrate on conversations and being nice, all I can concentrate on is breathing through the pain. Until I can take my meds and they kick in again.

For all we know this lady could have been in a similar situation. Had been waiting to sit down to get out her medication and drink. Then couldn't find somewhere. Was getting fed up of the pain, and at the end of her tether.

I'm not excusing her behaviour, because she was still a CF in my eyes. However, there may be more to this that we don't know (may not be at all aswell!) I'm just putting myself in her situation....

Bingo!

Can no one entertain the possibility that a person who is reliant on a stick for walking may lack the strength to (a) search up and down the platform for the buffet car or the carriage with unreserved seats or (b) walk far enough up and down a long train to find the conductor?

Apparently so, Saltcrust

Your daughter was right, she had reserved a seat, the woman knowing she has a disability, should have done the same. It is one thing, giving up a seat on a bus or tube, but a 4 hour journey in which you reserved your seat, no. The other passengers were giving your dd dirty looks, they should have given up their seats. Next time, the woman should plan in advance.

perhaps the thing to have done was that your daughter gave her the seat whilst the daughter went to find the conductor to explain the situation and ask him to find the disabled lady an appropriate seat instead of her reserved one?

perhaps the thing to have done was that your daughter gave her the seat whilst the daughter went to find the conductor to explain the situation and ask him to find the disabled lady an appropriate seat instead of her reserved one?

This

Funny how no-one else offered their seat up. I presume all the men nearby had mobility issues then (I'm male btw).

perhaps the thing to have done was that your daughter gave her the seat whilst the daughter went to find the conductor to explain the situation and ask him to find the disabled lady an appropriate seat instead of her reserved one?

And even then, it didn’t have to be the DD, it could have been anyone in the carriage who instead saw a disabled person struggling and chose to ignore her.

Thetriangle, yes absolutely. But I wouldn't expect a teenager to necessarily think of that. They're not long out of do what the teacher says and don't talk to strangers territory. "Teacher" said sit in your reserved seat or your ticket won't be valid. Perhaps I'm underestimating teenagers, it would depend how much experience they had of travelling alone.

If the daughter had left her seat to get the guard the woman would probably have snaffled her seat. Is there not a button you can press for the guard rather than walking up and down the whole train? I don’t travel by train often so there might not be

Woman asking her to move was unreasonable. I’ve just done a similar journey, train was a pendolino, I was nearly thrown out of my seat on several occasions, no why would I have given it up, tho. I reserved it months ago.