To think DD wasn’t unreasonable not to give up reserved seat?

[jasminajasminda]

Dd17 was getting the train from London to Edinburgh yesterday to visit her sister at uni (she’s just finished her internal school year 12 exams, and lessons don’t start again until Wednesday).

We obviously reserved her a seat. She arrived, got on the train, and sat down in her seat. The train was very busy, and a few minutes after the train started moving, a middle aged woman with a walking stick, having apparently wandered through several carriages (dd was in the front carriage) without finding a seat, looked around dd’s Carriage, then came up to her and asked her to move as she needed a seat (pointedly making a big deal of her walking stick). When dd pointed out that she had reserved that seat, and there was no way she was giving up her seat on a four hour train journey, the woman told her that she was young, and therefore didn’t need a seat as much as she did.

At this dd put on her headphones, and listened to music and ignored her. The woman eventually huffed and left the carriage. Dd said that she noticed a few other passengers giving her (dd) dirty looks throughout the journey.

Was dd being unreasonable?

Yes, she should have reserved a seat. But as an able bodied person I would have given my seat up to a disabled person whose need was greater. I wouldn't have wanted to, but I would have done it. I can't really believe that anyone wouldn't.

I'm no pushover, it's about consideration for others more in need.

You don’t even need to find a guard. Speak to the staff and they’ll pop you in the cart and drive you to correct carriage and assit you on. 🤷‍♂️

“Yes, if you are able bodied.“ why would they be looking for the disabled carriage?

How often have you tried that NewPapaGuinea?

There aren’t staff at all stations.
They aren’t always available.
You may not know where they are.
They may not have a “cart”.
You may not have time.

🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

You may be able to “locate them efficiently” if you are able bodied. If you have mobility problems it may not be as easy.

Trouble is, if your daughter had got out of her seat to help the lady find the guard, sure as eggs are eggs someone else would have nicked her seat in the meantime, then she would have had to have started all over again explaining that was her reserved seat, etc. I can see why she did not want to do that tbh.

YANBU If it were a bus journey or a local short train journey it would be different. But on a 4 hour train journey you would expect people who needed seats to reserve them. Why on earth had that woman not reserved a seat when she needed one?

I dont always reserve seats on trains and know that in not doing so I may end up sat on the floor near the doors for hours. Thats fine by me as I dont have any mobility issues.
If you are on crutches you need to reserve a seat!!

I certainly dont think it is fair to ask anyone to move on a journey of that length where they will have paid extra money in order to sit down. Bearing in mind that all disabilities arent visible as well.... its just not something you should ask of people as there is no reason why you could not have reserved a seat on a journey of that length.

Unreasonable to have picked on young lone female like this. My DD is a similar age and has scoliosis which means standing for long periods is difficult. She always reserves a seat. And her condition isn't obviously visible.
I wonder how politely the request was made as well?

If lady had asked a member of staff they probably would have put her in first class. I hate being put in positions like that and it's really not fair to target one person to ask them to stand for ; hours.

Yanbu. She booked her seat. This woman saw an easy target in your dd.
Lots of girls her age would have felt intimidated and given up her seat. Good for your daughter.

YANBU

Why on earth should she stand for such a long journey just because of her age? Do 17 year olds not deserve seats? I'd have been fuming if someone who couldn't be bothered to reserve a seat expected me to stand for 4 hours just because I happened to be 'young.'

From experience it’s impossible to know where the unreserved carriage is on a train, or which carriage the priority seats are.

Really? We travel by long distance train a lot and my experience of it is that not only do they put it up on the boards AND announce it, they also have it displayed on the outside of the carriages whether they're reserved or unreserved seating. Plus the station staff usually know, if all else fails.

@Battleax

Why on earth is it 'fairer' for a teenager to give up their seat than an adult? Fair enough if a young DC can sit on their mum's knee for a short journey, but why should a 17 year old give up their seat on a 4 hour journey that's been specifically booked and paid for?

I started posting on page 1 and it didn’t arrive until 6 pages later...

Sounds appropriate for a thread about trains in the UK.

If you are able bodied and young of course you must give up your seat to an infirm older lady.

I mean this when I say I would feel so disappointed in my dd if she had done this, she failed horribly to be a compassionate human being. Can’t think you feel very proud of her

I think it was unkind to pick on a very young woman travelling alone. As a twenty-something or thirty-something I would have felt able to go off and find a guard or another seat or something. As a 17 yr old I hadn't been on long train journeys alone before, I'd have been too nervous to not be in my reserved seat (you're told you have to be in it or your ticket's invalid), but also not known how to say no politely or to suggest the woman finds the guard.

Could it have been your DD being over-sensitive and actually the other passengers were looking sympathetic, or guilty themselves for not giving up their own seats? They're just as responsible as her.

The lady should have gone to 1st class and told them the situation. They would have let her sit down.

To some people I’m an older person, to some I’m OLD/ancient!
To others I’m young. As a middle aged female, I’d more likely be asked to move than a man of my age/appearance

The agist on the train was the woman deliberately targeting another passenger - with a reserved sign on her seat too - because she thought she could bully her way into this woman’s seat.

The dd was factual, polite and correct. I’d have been very cross if my 17yo child on a 4 hour journey was made to stand despite me paying for a seat for him.

The earphones was fine, the woman had stated her case and wasn’t having her position respected by someone who already was way out of line and absolutely unreasonable- there is no point in arguing with idiotic bullies.

elderflowerandrose I would be proud of my daughter for standing her ground. The woman was at fault. There are many ways she could have got a seat... there are actual reserved disabled seats that people have to give up to those with disabilities, she could have approached a train guard who would have found her a seat in first class if there were none available there, and she could and should have reserved a seat herself knowing that she was on crutches.
If it were a bus or short journey where no seats were reserved then of course it is the right thing to do to give up your seat to people who need it.
On a 4 hour train journey however most people are going to need a seat regardless of their physical situation so it is not the same. You cant just nick the seat someone else has paid for because you couldnt be arsed to pay extra or actually sort out talking to a train guard before boarding or even locating the reserved seating for people who need it.
The OPs daughter is not going to be able to go and sit in the reserved disabled seating or get the train guard to put her in first class is she?
So shes gonna be sat on the floor or standing for four whole hours just because someone else essentially couldnt be arsed.... and shes going to have paid extra for the privilege... how is that fair or right?
The woman could easily have gotten a seat on that journey without forcing someone else to suffer. If she could stand there talking to the daughter for that long im sure she could have spoken to a train guard. It really sounds like she was just picking on the daughter and was not a nice person.

@ittakes2 ‘old lady’ she was middle aged according to the OP.

The lady should have gone to 1st class and told them the situation. They would have let her sit down.

No, she should have reserved a seat.

Perhaps tho, this is what she wanted, then get a free upgrade to first.

She has a responsibility for her own transportation plans, not bullying or intimidating others

*If you are able bodied and young of course you must give up your seat to an infirm older lady.

I mean this when I say I would feel so disappointed in my dd if she had done this, she failed horribly to be a compassionate human being. Can’t think you feel very proud of her*

Don't be so sanctimonious. I would be proud that my child hadn't stood up for four hours when I'd paid for her to have a seat.

And this wasn't an older lady; the op says middle aged

The lady should have gone to 1st class and told them the situation. They would have let her sit down.

Aren’t first class usually in the front carriage, where the DD was? It could be that she was trying to do that. Either way, wandering up and down moving trains on crutches isn’t as easy as most people seem to think .

As I said, I don’t think DD should have to move, and I personally wouldn’t want to risk traveling that distance to reserve a seat, but isn’t it basic human kindness to try and help someone in that situation rather than glare at teenagers or accuse the disabled woman of being entitled, a cheeky fucker or a bully?

I would be perfectly happy to give up my seat on a short train journey, bus or tube.

But on a four hour, cross country journey, if I've reserved and paid for a seat, I'm keeping it. I wouldn't be guilted into giving it up even if the person asking for my seat was 110 years old.