To think DD wasn’t unreasonable not to give up reserved seat?

[jasminajasminda]

Dd17 was getting the train from London to Edinburgh yesterday to visit her sister at uni (she’s just finished her internal school year 12 exams, and lessons don’t start again until Wednesday).

We obviously reserved her a seat. She arrived, got on the train, and sat down in her seat. The train was very busy, and a few minutes after the train started moving, a middle aged woman with a walking stick, having apparently wandered through several carriages (dd was in the front carriage) without finding a seat, looked around dd’s Carriage, then came up to her and asked her to move as she needed a seat (pointedly making a big deal of her walking stick). When dd pointed out that she had reserved that seat, and there was no way she was giving up her seat on a four hour train journey, the woman told her that she was young, and therefore didn’t need a seat as much as she did.

At this dd put on her headphones, and listened to music and ignored her. The woman eventually huffed and left the carriage. Dd said that she noticed a few other passengers giving her (dd) dirty looks throughout the journey.

Was dd being unreasonable?

To those suggesting dd could have helped find the guard, she hasn’t been on many long distance train journeys, so I doubt she knows that that is the protocol if someone needs a seat.

Your daughter shouldn’t have to find a guard/train steward. That’s the woman’s accountability. If she wanted a seat or had a need for one she should have planned ahead.
Your DD was completely correct in her actions. It’s good you have brought her up to be assertive and not give in to CF’s.

I think your DD was rude to put her headphones on and ignore the woman. That’s really bad manners even if the woman was rude. She should have found a guard and passed on the responsibility.

The appropriate approach for future reference is to give up your seat (at least temporarily) and find the guard to get an alternative seat for either you or the disabled person.

On a crowded 2 hour train I got guilted into giving up my reserved seat to a not-visibly-disabled pension age woman who stood next to my (autistic) 6 year old son and made loud PA comments about how in her day children gave up their seats for their elders. That was years ago but I still fume about how obnoxious she was.

Woman in the OP who was definitely disabled and asked directly was not as bad as that: if you can’t book, can’t find a guard and really need a seat then you have to ask, although it’s better practice to ask a group of 4 or more “can anyone please give me a seat, I’m unable to stand” rather than an individual.

On a 30 minute train journey between towns then maybe. But on a 4 hour journey no way would I give up my seat. Your DD was right.

Yikes. This is all bonkers and scary.

Lady asks for seat. Able bodied person should graciously give seat up. Perhaps avail herself of her well functioning limbs to see if she can find a seat elsewhere on the train. If she can't work out to ask the train manager for assistance, perhaps she could tweet Virgin for their ideas.

What is going on? Having consideration for others is compatible with self respect and assertiveness.

Woman with walking stick was being a bully. She picked on your dd because she thought she was a weak target.

Those saying the ops dd should have found a guard, why couldn’t the woman with stick find the guard herself.

@C8H10N4O2 - It sounds like OPs daughter was asked because her age and sex made her lower down on the "privilege tree" than the carriage full of people that weren't asked. Reason enough to say no.

I'm not saying don't help people, but it has to be voluntary and on your own terms. Not because you've been taken for a soft touch.

Your daughter was not unreasonable. Good for her for sticking up for herself under pressure.

I started posting on page 1 and it didn’t arrive until 6 pages later so likely repeating everyone else lol

For goodness sake.

There are always unreserved carriages on long distance train journeys. They have priority seats in them. This woman was being a CF because instead of going and asking someone in one of those, she went into a reserved carriage and asked someone she thought would be a soft touch to give up her seat instead. Which is not ok, because the OP's daughter had booked her seat. Even if, giving this woman the benefit of the doubt, she'd thought she had booked a seat, or it was an emergency journey - there are still contingencies for this sort of eventuality. The woman was a CF and instead of asking the guard to help she expected to intimidate a young girl out of a seat.

And good for her for standing up for herself to be honest. She didn't deny the woman a seat - she denied her HER seat. There were other, more suitable seats available.

The most entitled people I have ever met are old people.

And you want people to “call out” ageism boney?

And the amount that claimed to have a disability most of them.

And you know for a fact that none of them had difficult standing? The reality is that a younger (younger, not automatically young) person is more likely to be able to stand, or sit on the floor and get up again than someone old.

Unless you are using the MN definition of "old" which seems to start at 40.

I stood for people who needed it when I was young and fit, I expected my children to do the same. At the same time I've had older people (as in 70+ offer me a seat when I was struggling without any expectation that a younger person should do it. I've never experienced a bunch of older people looking expectantly at the youngest person in the vicinity.

Your implication that people are faking it is disablist.

However since you seem to be more in tune with HQ deletions than I am I'll leave you all to bleat on about the crappy "old" disabled fakers without me.

Battleax

that I have ever met.

not all old people not every old person not all entitled people are old, but the most entitled people that I have ever met have been old.

But you read into my words what you like. I'm sure that it will make you feel better.

You’re stereotyping boney. You also said ”Why? because of the amount of old people that saw a young person and expected them to move and even when I picked up my crutches just sat down and fucking smiled at me. And the amount that claimed to have a disability most of them.”

Are you really under the impression you’re not being ageist?

C8H10N4O2

I was on crutches, did you miss that part or are you just ignoring it?

Battleax

Ageism would be calling all old people entitled. I haven't done that, I have only put forward my experience of those that believed that someone should move for them.

but you keep going.

PotterGrangerWeasley

Oh right. I didn't know that. I thought you could live your life any way you wanted, including selflessly, if you prefer. I am not saying I do that, just that I thought I could if I wanted to.

It really is the first time I have ever heard anyone suggest that I am not allowed to be kind!

I agree the disabled woman should have reserved a seat, but aside from that there are some remarkably unpleasant views on this thread.

From experience it’s impossible to know where the unreserved carriage is on a train, or which carriage the priority seats are. So if you have mobility issues you have to just get on where you can and hope you can make it. That could mean you get on, go the wrong way, struggle through several carriages without seeing a seat or a guard and think fuck it, i can’t walk any further, I’m going to have to ask someone.

So what do you do? Announce to the carriage that you are disabled and need a seat? Or look for someone who you think might help?

I’m not saying your DD was wrong to stay in her seat, and anyone giving her dirty looks without offering their own seat is a hypocrite. But anyone saying the disabled woman is a bully, or a CF is sadly lacking in empathy.

Most trains have specific seats that state to be given up for elderly or disabled, so unless she was sat in those she had every right to decline.

And Ps the carriages that have these seats have a disabled badge in the window so they can be located efficiently

Most trains have priority seats for disabled passengers, which can’t be reserved. Your daughter INBU for expecting to use the seat she’s reserved.

Having a disability required planning ahead
She should have booked a seat. Not fair to pick on someone.

And Ps the carriages that have these seats have a disabled badge in the window so they can be located efficiently

Yes, if you are able bodied. Or if you are at the first stop on the line and have plenty of time before the train leaves to locate them. Otherwise you end up watching them sail past where you are standing on the platform, or you don’t see them, and have to take a guess where they are and head in that direction. Either way walking through several carriages to find them, on a moving crowded train, when you are on crutches. But well done for proving my point about empathy.