to wonder why adults let their children speak to them like this?

[dayinlifeof]

We were out earlier and saw some twins (probably 7/8), they'd just been bought some lovely things from a nearby stall at a fair and were queuing for candy floss. One demanded the candy floss, other shouted that they didn't want candy floss. Then the one with the candy floss shoved the things they had been bought at the adult with them and shouted 'take this or else' - none of the adults even batted an eyelid and just accepted it.

I was surprised that the parents didn't react at all to it, not even looking annoyed or irritated.

Ah, parenting advise from non parents! I'm sure you and your husband congratulated yourselves on what marvellous parents you will be sparkly after the way you 'handled' that situation. What your DH did sounds horrifying quite

I know someone who adopted 7 year old twins who had an incredibly traumatic start to their life, and I am sure that if their children spoke to them like that in public, they would automatically come down hard or remind of manners, they would deal with it gently later behind closed doors. Am sure it’s not the same family but the point is you never can tell from a snapshot what is going on

Grrr - I meant would NOT come down hard on them

Sorry but one bloke shouting at a child with SEN in a queue is not actually a solution. He may have just been terrified, unable to process what had happened, his mother may then have had far worse to deal with once they got home as a result. It certainly isn't a long term strategy.

Does that mean your dh shouldn't have shouted? Not necessarily. He was hurt, he wasn't abusive etc etc It was a reaction and the child may or may not learn from it.

My point is, it isn't an indication that the child could behave and was just choosing not to.

SparklyShoes what your Dh did may have been appropriate depending on his tone and the level of aggression in his angry words. I can not judge as I was not there. What I was referring to was a Dad bellowing in such a hateful tone, and with such a loyd aggressive voice that not only did his three Ds stand to attention, but the whole coffee shop. You had to be there. It was over a silly napkin theowing incident and demonstrated not that a child was being disciplined, but that a father's anger was out of control. It also demonstrated lack of respect and scare tactics. We all know research has shown that this type of discipline does not work to control poor behaviour. It just pushes the behaviour underground, and as others have stated, the child is at risk of feeling hostility toward the parent, then acting out with same behaviour in future, just making sure it is behind the parent's back. The other risk of a child often on the recieving end of yelling angry parents, is they internalise this and have poor self esteem and become a wall flower.

@Kettlepotblack so because we're not parents we don't have a right to comment??? 2 miscarriages ago we would have been so would I have the 'right' to comment then!! Just because we are not parents doesn't mean we can't comment on behaviour of children and I bloody will do when a child shoves a trolley into my husband's back! And no we didn't 'congratulate' ourselves why on earth would we??...we were both saying to each other we felt sad/horrified for the Mum that is being kicked quite hard by her child over not being allowed sweets...others stood there and tutted, muttered under their breaths...we didn't do that my DH actually said something...I'm proud of the fact that my DH didn't let it continue! If the message the child is getting is it's ok to kick people and shove trolleys and the Mother apologise at every turn that's not on!

Well I guess he saved the day then and the mother now knows how to handle it...

@midsummabreak sorry I missed the a bit about the cafe! Yes that sounds awful! I would not be happy at all of DH did that!!

I can honestly say my DH wasn't loud it was more deep and firm not bellowing/screaming...he made me jump because usually he's so horizontal i.e.laid back and would very rarely say anything to another persons child and I think the till person jumped because it wasn't expected nowadays people won't say anything in fear of being accused of something!

Maybe they were trying to get through the day without further incident.

Really how can you discipline an 8yo in the middle of a public fair? Tell them ok right you’re on an electronics ban for that (resulting in screaming and end of outing)? Sit them on a naughty step in the middle of a crowd?

Probably they decided they would tackle it once they got home.

"I'm proud of the fact that my DH didn't let it continue! If the message the child is getting is it's ok to kick people and shove trolleys and the Mother apologise at every turn that's not on!"

Good for him, I say. Who on earth would stand there and say nothing whilst having a trolley shoved into them? And the message clearly got through.

There are kids with SEN and kids without but all children can be taught discipline, boundaries and respect!

Yes but punishment such as shouting, is not going to teach that boy the skills he needs.

@Kettlepotblack yes he's a hero!!! Of course he is...did u you not know??...he dons his cape and flies all over the world to save mum's and dads of badly behaved children and is especially akin to those with ADHD!!

My DH didn't say anything to the Mum or to anyone around the till...we didn't even say anything as we left... the only time he did say something was in response to the family next to us and then talked about the prep for the BBQ today!

😂 at bellowing man being the cure for SEN. Did he give the Mum his number so she can call him every time her child plays up and he can swoop in and fix him?

Nobody said shouting was the solution but in that instance it stopped the boy in his tracks. What if it had been an elderly person that he'd shoved the trolley into?

Something my son wrote, to hopefully give a bit of insight into a day for a child with ASD. I have his permission to share. He wants to be an autism activist to increase understanding.

“i feel I cannot cope with socialising. It drains me of all my energy, I feel under constant pressure. Remember your manners, stand up straight, remember not too close, eye contact, when to talk, when to stop, show an interest, start a conversation and finish, remember what’s been said, think of how to reply, what words are appropriate. Everyday, all day. It’s exhausting.

It’s not that I don’t want to socialise. Just being at home makes me feel better, not worse.

I can’t sleep, I can’t eat anything, everything tastes disgusting, like cardboard and makes me want to be sick. I have aches and pains all over my body. I can’t do anything without giving up.

I will Socialise tomorrow, for the whole day, like the adults want me to. I feel forced to. I want to cry and scream out loud”

My son never screams out loud. Sometimes I wish he would, to release some of the pressure he feels.

Spare a thought when you see a child not behaving as expected.

for your son shed

I love your son's writing, Shed. Thankyou so much for sharing

Thank you, I will pass on your praise.

"There are kids with SEN and kids without but all children can be taught discipline, boundaries and respect!"

Only to a level they are capable of which may be much less than some random person thinks.
The expectations could be not throwing food, kicking furniture over or thumping anyone but vocal noise or banging on things may be considered reasonable for that child at that point.
Even if the expectations are not met they may be dealt with in a calm way that may appear to others that nothing has been done.

all children can be taught discipline, boundaries and respect!

Seriously? You’ve never met or seen children who just do not have the capacity to understand manners or respect? Children who don’t and never will have any concept of the world beyond what is happening to them? Your world must be very fucking small.

It should read “differences will not be tolerated. All square pegs will be forced into round holes. To appease our sense of ‘normal’”

We are going out for a pub lunch today. To enable my son to do this. He will be wearing head phones and have a device in his hands at all. He will probably ignore us and everyone else and not use please or thank you. He will need to have bacon on one plate and chips on another. If really stressed he might lay across the seats.

Awaits thread about rude teenager boy, with no manners, playing on his phone and laying across seats!!

@Spikeyball...fair point!

@WomanEqualsAdultHumanFemale

"Seriously? You’ve never met or seen children who just do not have the capacity to understand manners or respect? Children who don’t and never will have any concept of the world beyond what is happening to them? Your world must be very fucking small"

Yes I have met children (I have worked in the Education and Health sectors for over ten years) a very small who have no concept of the world and beyond but they are the children ime who 'can' learn self-discipline, boundaries and respect quicker...with time, patience and the right guidance!! No child is incapable of learning those basics regardless of if they are SEN or not everyone has different stages as @Spikeyball has given examples!! I must be very lucky to have not come across personally a child who doesn't have the capacity to have/learn manners or respect.

And no my world isn't small I may not have experienced parenthood yet (I have a very large family with plenty of Neice's & Nephews, Younger Cousin's...2 that have lived with us when things have got too much at home 15 who was and still can be a nightmare at times) & 17 yr old ) but have certainly experienced a hell of a lot!! Everyone's parenting style is different everyone's experiences are different!

Don't worry shed, I'm sure there is a strange, childless man at the pub that can shout at your son to teach him some manners. Just be sure to be oh so grateful to him for saving the day.

Well sparklyshoes, if YOUVE never met a child like that, they can't exist! Discussion over then!

No child is incapable of learning those basics regardless of if they are SEN or not

Fucking hell!! The ignorance on this and others threads like it never ceases to amaze me.