to wonder why adults let their children speak to them like this?

[dayinlifeof]

We were out earlier and saw some twins (probably 7/8), they'd just been bought some lovely things from a nearby stall at a fair and were queuing for candy floss. One demanded the candy floss, other shouted that they didn't want candy floss. Then the one with the candy floss shoved the things they had been bought at the adult with them and shouted 'take this or else' - none of the adults even batted an eyelid and just accepted it.

I was surprised that the parents didn't react at all to it, not even looking annoyed or irritated.

So, I saw 'the other side of the coin ' today and ended up defending the child in question against parent's angrily dished out discipline
just walked out oc a coffee shop after standing up for a child being "disciplined" by his father. The Dad yelled, very aggresively something at his Ds , and is was so full of hate anx ager that a waitress dropped her cloth and my children and Mum looked open mouthed in shock. After watching his Ds walk, shaking and tremblingly pick up a serviette he must have thrown at his brother, ( looks like it missed and brushed his father then said serviette fell on floor) , then looking with terrified eyes at his Dad and around the room, the Ds sat back down. Well I called theDad out, went ocer and suggested he keep his voice down. His wife defended him, saying its none of your buisiness, and what and who are you, anyway,? ". Then Dad said " thats whats wrong with society today, kids get away with anything".

"Children like that makes me wish giving them a wallop was allowed!"

I think you need help.

Anyone that says "Additional needs or not" doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

I was at a fair yesterday (buying candy floss) and my children were acting similar. Thankfully, not twins . They get overwhelmed by places like this and end up acting like brats. I tell myself I won’t take them again, but in reality, I want to go for myself, not just for them.
When they’re acting like that in a very public place, it’s difficult to give them the discipline they need without causing a show. My children seem to be very aware that I won’t scream at them in public (and can’t exactly send them to their rooms) and play on it. They never respond to stern warnings or being taken to the side and reprimanded. By the time they’re acting bratty, we are passed the point of reasoning.
You are being too judgey. I’m guessing you would also judge if the parent was the other end of the spectrum and smacked the child on the hand (which, to clarify, I would never do). What exactly do you expect the parent to do? Take the entire family home and ruin the day for everyone? Say, ‘stop misbehaving, Theodore, think about your actions and other people’s feelings’ and expect the over-stimulated and overwhelmed child to give a fart in the wind?

I’m a teacher. I’m often surprised by how children speak to their parents, when they are perfectly capable of being polite and patient.
SN, hunger, tiredness, illness all affect behaviour, but some are just rude and demanding because they choose to be at that moment.

I love threads bashing parents. You see a five minute conversation out of their whole 24 hour day.

Skating I also work in a school and am gobsmacked at how some children speak to adults. And it’s usually nothing whatsoever to do with Sen, but everything to do with a lack of boundaries at home.

I’m a teacher. I’m often surprised by how children speak to their parents, when they are perfectly capable of being polite and patient.
SN, hunger, tiredness, illness all affect behaviour, but some are just rude and demanding because they choose to be at that moment.

Another teacher here, currently in Year 35 of teaching. Weak parenting does exist, I can confirm. The most recent trend is for parents to intervene when the teacher tries to sanction. We'll get "I'm afraid X will not be doing the detention as he has given us his side of the account and it doesn't tally with yours." OK, fine, but we know that in a couple of years time they'll be on the phone begging the school for support as their teenager grows increasingly out of control. Been there, seen it. Fact.
A relatively small number of children have SEND. There are plenty of others who misbehave simply because they have not had good parenting modelled to them from a young age.

I think you've answered your own question op. Judgement.
I'm one of those parents though who will ignore my kids and carry on with my day if they kick off. I remember once when dd was 2/3 kicking off in the shop coz ide said no to sweets. I managed to get her to bend long enough to strap her in the buggy and carried on shopping with dd having a full scale tantrum.
Had some nosy woman ask if I could do anything with her. I replied I could give her a slap if you like (Btw I wouldn't of really slapped her but she was having a tantrum when I said no)

I didn't care dd was kicking off as far as I was concerned I was parenting the way I thought was best.
I think to many people and scared other people are going to judge them and their parenting skills.

I'll stick my neck out here and say I'm appalled how some children speak to their parents at times, and that includes my own children who don't have any SEN. I think its a product of the fact we now give more respect and rights to our children, and we teach them to expect that. Overall it's a good thing but I think the balance has tipped too far.Last week we attempted a shopping trip followed by a restaurant. Ds1 moaned all the way around the shopping centre, and ds2 played up in the restaurant. Ds1 can also be incredibly rude in the way he speaks to me. This is despite being model students at school/nursery. I don't want this to be our normal and am planning on changing this whatever way I can (within reason).

" I really can't stand when adults of compliant children think it is all down to their stellar parenting. It isnt, it's just personality."
This.

I mean really, just stop judging people you see struggling with what is obviously a shitty situation. You literally have no idea what is going on in their lives. Or why they are dealing with the situation the way they are.

'Weak parenting does exist, I can confirm.'

When out and about, one has no idea if parents are 'weak' or what is going on in their lives. By posting this you are just encouraging an attitude of nasty judgementalism to strangers. This helps no-one.

And actually Charlton, different children have different temperaments, and had different experiences, and this can mean some children find the environment at school very challenging and this causes their behavioural problems. Then punitive measures at schools add to their stress which exacerbates their behavioural problems. This affects a wider number than those with SEN. You seem to have dismissed all children that have caused you difficulties. I read an account from a guy who works with ' disregulated' children. He gave a conference saying there are no bad kids. A nursery worker piped up . 'well there's a bad un in my class and his dad was bad before him and his grand father before him'. SO he visited this boy and very soon realised that he had a very sensitive temperament to sensory stimulation. So he put him in a room, dimmed the lights, made it quiet and spoke softly. 'Oh my god,' said the nursery worker as she saw the boys body soften and relax. And she changed her practice with him from that day on. He wasn;'t bad, he was overwhelmed and stressed.

Sigh.

My two come out of school and get really grumpy toward me sometimes. They have been good all day and I'm a safe person to let off steam to. Good to know their teachers are watching and secretly judging.

My dd is autistic and has ADHD and she is extremely irritable and agitated at the moment because she is so anxious - last night we were on the bus and she was swearing at me and flicking her fingers in her face but I know the best way to manage her is to ignore and let her calm down and then talk to her about it. She can't manage an interaction when she's in that state - it ups the ante and her behaviour deteriorates further. I would think SN straight away if I saw another child behave like this - why not be kind and give someone the benefit of the doubt instead of judging when you don't know?

In some cases people do judge!! It's natural to wonder, to be curious, to be mortified, to be disgusted etc there's NOTHING wrong with that!! We all judge at some point in our lives...it really annoys me when people say don't be so judgey...we all do it!! I fully admit when I see a child being vile to their parents I do judge in my head...because I look and think it's so sad and there's no way in hell I would have had said ANY of the stuff I hear (I ducking hate, fuck off, bitch, c*nt) to my parents especially my dad (I was never hit just got that look) and DH to his parents (who did get hit by his dad).

There are kids with SEN and kids without but all children can be taught discipline, boundaries and respect! Yesterday we were in Tesco and a boy in the queue behind us, I think he was around 8/9 kicked off big style as he'd picked a load of sweets up from the pick and mix and dumped them in the trolley! The Mum said no go and put the bag back...he refused she said no x3...he started shouting I hate you, fuck off at the top of his voice...she was unfazed...as I moved forward at the front of our trolley and DH was at the handles, the boy started kicking his mum then shoved their trolley into back of my DH back...then carried on kicking his mum she apologised to my DH and said sorry he's got ADHD...the boy carried on kicking his mum quite hard on her legs which she ignored... DH turned round and boomed "STOP THAT NOW" he made the boy, the cashier and I jump then carried on emptying the trolley as though nothing happened...the boy stopped kicking his Mum immediately without a further word or kick the whole time we were in the queue...we didn't look back when we paid and left...I saw them going to their car and he was walking next to her...DH said sorry but it bloody hurt that trolley and I couldn't stand there and let him keep kicking his mum like that!

I was 'judgey' in the fact that yes that boy my have ADHD but can still be taught boundaries regardless and the fact my DH had a trolley shoved in his back a kid saying "or else" after they've been told they can't have something is not on!!

So no one has ever met a rude, arrogant, unpleasant adult who didn’t have a good reason for their behaviour?
Because they don’t stay little children forever. Do you think that all these children will miraculously become civil, polite adults? Or are you all as unjudgemental of adults, including your partners, MILs and neighbours?
Sometimes children are unpleasant. They are people too.

Don't know why it's randomly started doing bits in bold!

And actually Charlton, different children have different temperaments, and had different experiences, and this can mean some children find the environment at school very challenging and this causes their behavioural problems. Then punitive measures at schools add to their stress which exacerbates their behavioural problems.

Well you're stating the bleedin' obvious there, but all I'll say in response is that having to deal with teenagers who choose not to respect boundaries is the principle trigger for the current haemorrhaging of teachers from the profession at secondary level.

Or why so many adults are wary, hostile and suspicious of teenagers.

but all I'll say in response is that having to deal with teenagers who choose not to respect boundaries is the principle trigger for the current haemorrhaging of teachers from the profession at secondary level.

This^^

It is so wasy to judge that the teachers are at fault when a class is out of control.
It is so easy to judge the parents to be at fault when a child is out of control.
Yet we all know there are some schools that teachers avoid working in, due to the student at those schools have higher than average behaviour and learning issues.
We also know that some parents bring all of their children up in the same way, using similar firm but fair boundaries, yet one or some of their children display appalling behavaviour behaviour issues. This is extremely challenging for parents and teachers alike.

However these challenges call for more considered and measured responses to the behavioural issues at hand. These children with behaviour issues do need firm but fair consequences, but realistically this will not magically produce angelic children or teens.
SEN or non SEN children with behaviour issues both require careful consideration to be invested into encouraging improved behaviour. There simply is not a one punishment fits all that magically fixes all behaviour problems for all children.

Yes, it is important for our society that we invest in our children and work on these challenges, for a respectful community, and to encourage each child to have a brighter future.

We do not need more Dads bellowing at their children so loudly that everyone jumps around them. We do not need to go back to the good old days where teachers grab students by the ear and bellow at them in front of the class, or wash their mouths out with soap in front of the class.
We need appropriate consequences suited to the issue at hand. And we need consequences backed by research not consequences that make pussed off overworked teachers and parents feel better

Pissed off

Of course we all know that some children have been badly brought up. Nobody is denying it. But that is not the same as turning round and getting a 2 minute snapshot of one specific family and believing you can know how to pigeon-hole them. Because seriously you cannot.

My dd was pigeon-holed by her headteacher in her first year at junior for not standing up quickly enough in his presence. He never revised his opinion of her after that. Of course children should jump up politely in the presence of their HT. But she found it very difficult to do because her legs hurt and she didn't know if that was normal or not. Six months later her disability was diagnosed. A year later she was using a wheelchair on a regular basis. She never misbehaved or spoke rudely to a teacher throughout her school career. But he took one single moment and decided it was rudeness because it would have been- with a different child. Lesson to be learnt there.

If I or either of my other two brothers had spoken to our parents like my db did on one of his black days, then it would have been appalling behaviour and should have been disciplined so we never did it again. Any stranger hearing us would have been perfectly right in prescribing more and stricter punishment. But that doesn't mean that horde of Italian women were right about my struggling brother and that his behaviour was due to a lack of discipline. Again, that's the point: they didn't know us.

@midsummabreak

"We do not need more Dads bellowing at their children so loudly that everyone jumps around them"

My DH and I are not parents yet and my DH only 'bellowed' because he was disgusted with the behaviour of the child i.e. kicking his Mum and shoving a trolley into him! Saying 3-4 times clearly wasn't working! He couldn't physically restrain him so his voice was the only option saying in a soft tone stop that now I really don't think that would have worked seen as he had the gall to shove a trolley in DH back...When we were putting the shopping into the car a family parked next to us said (well the DH said) if he had been mine he had "been knocked into next week" my DH said "I don't hit kids as I was hit there's no need for it...just being firm is my way pal" the guy responded well yeah I agree to an extent but there's no way my kid is gonna stand there and kick my wife!

Yes I agree more research needs to be done into behaviour and how some kids need extra help.

We have boundaries, I ignore bad behaviour as it’s bestnfor my children however when they have calmed down and we are in a quiet place we then discuss the behaviour and give punishment if required, no point in escalating the behaviour further it achieves nothing.