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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

902 replies

jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 08:31

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

OP posts:
LifeBeginsAtGin · 05/05/2018 10:24

Women can have as many kids as they want - except the Government won't fund more than 2. Get a better job/qualified if you feel you need 6 kids and fund them yourself.

And as for contraception failure, most 'failures' are down to not being used correctly.

bunce · 05/05/2018 10:24

"if your not middle class and above your choices are very limited. Wages stagnate yet rent raises year on year back in the 60/70s rent did not even reach 50% of the average take home pay now days it can easily reach 90% for shit holes."

Nonsense ! Many working class people do well for themselves. My father and grandfather were coal miners. My mum worked in an old peoples home. I had secondary level education only - no A levels I own my own 4 bed detached home a and i earn a decent wage and have never had ANY benefits. My sister she has just bought a lovely house in Kent with her fiancee. She only had GCSEs herself.

What we need to be telling kids is that if you aren't happy with your lot, do something to change it.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 10:25

Women can have as many kids as they want

Aye because men have nothing to do with conception and parenting eh? Fucks sake.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 05/05/2018 10:28

OK, families can have as many kids as they want. You can't have everything in life.

This thread is just stirring up UC debates.

Chattymummyhere · 05/05/2018 10:32

Many working couples make the choice to terminate a pregnancy because they can not afford another child. I’m not sure why being on benefits should be any different. Work don’t up your wages because you have another child, your mortgage company won’t decide that you need a bigger house and help you get one.

Everyone is free to have as many children as they want but the gov wil only pay for two born after the date they set that was well published.

Roomba · 05/05/2018 10:44

I assume those who have posted that working or working more hours 'is an option' are aware that many, if not a majority, of people on UC are WORKING - many full time! Eventually, everyone who currently gets Child Tax Credits or Working Tax credits (you know, to pay for the childcare they need to be able to work, etc.) will be moved onto UC. The problem is low wages.

Yes, your employer won't pay you more if you have a third child. But until this change, you could claim additional Child Tax Credit/Working Tax Credit plus Child Benefit - this also helped women stay in work instead of having to give up/go part time/have an abortion. If you were on FT minimum wage and your baby was in nursery full time, that's hundreds of pounds each month you've potentially lost out on.

It's not just 'feckless benefit scroungers' Hmm that have been impacted by this policy!

I had a pregnancy scare after this change came in. I took the MAP after a contraceptive failure then my period didn't arrive for weeks. I was terrified as I knew there was no way I could now manage with a 3rd child - I was working FT btw and would have been able to just about cope before - not live the high life, but just about cope. I would 100% have had an abortion, even though it would have seriously affected my mental health, in this circumstance. Luckily, I wasn't pregnant.

As far telling those parents who can't work or can't work more hours, due to disabled children or caring for elderly parents, to just 'stop shagging' for the rest of their reproductive lives... I have no words Shock

ohreallyohreallyoh · 05/05/2018 10:44

Everyone is free to have as many children as they want but the gov wil only pay for two born after the date they set that was well published

The reality of that is that there are many families who make choices involving more than 2 children only for their situations to change beyond all reason. Even more a reality is that it is usually women left to deal with it. And many more women do not have control of their fertility as so many seem to think they have.

I can see an issue with people having children without taking responsibility (although I believe the numbers are greatly exaggerated) but the answer is education, life opportunities, removal of barriers to participation in the workplace. Punishing a woman who finally manages to leave an abusive relationship who has 4 children under 10 by supporting only 2 of those children is not the answer. Sadly, things like Sure Start which would have been in a position to help such women have all but disappeared. The situation is dire and the wrong people are suffering,

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 10:47

This thread is just stirring up UC debates

It’s a shitshow of a policy, causing a great deal of distress and hardship. It SHOULD be debated.

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 10:53

bunce So because you own a 4 bedroom detached house, then everyone else should also, if they only worked hard enough?
And coal miners were very well paid.

Sometimes I don't know on threads like this if people are as thick as they seem, or on the wind up.

Life is hard when money is scarce. I have lived in some shitholes because it was all I could afford. Sure I had the choice to live in a different shithole instead.

And the delay in getting universal credit is inhuman.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 05/05/2018 10:54

Yes but @Smeddum, we would like a debate but you need to calm down and stop effing and jeffing at people who don't agree with you.

Telling people to fuck off isn't a debate!

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 10:56

I feel so sad that any woman has to have an abortion because of a lack of money.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 10:59

Yes but @Smeddum, we would like a debate but you need to calm down and stop effing and jeffing at people who don't agree with you.

When someone refers to someone on benefits as not a contributing member of society, and has an attitude like that, fuck off is entirely reasonable. Because nobody has the right to be so nasty.

It’s interesting that my response has stirred you to respond, but many of the more distasteful and sneery ones haven’t. Why is that do you think?

BrightonCalling · 05/05/2018 11:01

I think in an overpopulated world, having one child if you are physically able is your right, having a second is a choice, and having a third is a luxury.

Childrenofthesun · 05/05/2018 11:04

Nonsense ! Many working class people do well for themselves. My father and grandfather were coal miners.

Completely different times so totally irrelevant to this debate. Unfortunately, UC is such an issue because many in lower-paid jobs simply cannot survive without top-ups from benefits due to wage stagnation/zero-hours contracts etc. No matter how many hours they work, some will never be able to afford to live in the way hard-working members of the working-classes could have done in previous generations.

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 11:06

Coal miners were called the aristocracy of the working class. That is because although it was a very hard physical job, the wages were very very good. You were not poor if your dad was a miner.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 05/05/2018 11:07

I skimmed this thread and your vitriol stood out. It's great you are so passionate and I think it spills over into anger.

Not everyone will agree with you and those who didn't had the courage to post with valid reasons. A number of posters have stated that there are working women who also have abortions due to finances but that has been overlooked in an attempt to stir up fear and anger towards UC.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 05/05/2018 11:09

Good point @Brighton

crunchymint · 05/05/2018 11:10

Nobody should be having an abortion due to finances.

ginghamstarfish · 05/05/2018 11:11

Agree with caps. Ideally (and yes I know there are exceptions but they should not be that common) a baby is planned and wanted, and the parent(s) know beforehand they can afford to look after it. (yes I also know circumstances can change etc etc). I don't see why anyone takes offence at that way of thinking??

worridmum · 05/05/2018 11:11

coal miners were paid far more then other "working" class jobs in fact my uncle who was a coal miner earned nearly double that of his friend who was an accountant....

But now days unless you get help from parents you are unlikely to ever be able to own your own home for shit hole stuido flat near were i used to live costs £1500 per month (it has mold and i use the term stuido flat loosely since you can touch both walls at same time at its widest point).

How many jobs would pay you enough to be able to save for a deposit when rent for the shittist accomidation imaginable costs £1500.... its that or 2 or 3 hour commute each way

Jobbieshitkakaboudin · 05/05/2018 11:12

Totally in support of TeasandToast I am a secondary teacher, head of department with 3 kids. Currently we recieve no benefits due to DH salary. I'm well aware if we ever had to do without DH contribution we would be fucked.
This is not a good system. And we could all end up in this situation.

eggcellent · 05/05/2018 11:14

If you can't afford another child, don't have one. Why should taxes pay for your selfish need to procreate? Overpopulation!

LexieLulu · 05/05/2018 11:17

Why should the tax payer pay for your children? You've been blessed with two (paid for)

I have two children, I work and don't get any benefits. We can not afford a third as it would mean another maternity leave (drop of income), wed need a bigger car and house. So my DH got sterilised.

I'm not on benefits, I can't afford a third, so I'm preventing it.

It's not a case of human rights I should be allowed a third? I've been blessed with two

LexieLulu · 05/05/2018 11:19

@BrightonCalling
I think in an overpopulated world, having one child if you are physically able is your right, having a second is a choice, and having a third is a luxury.

^ this! 100% agree

ShinyShooney · 05/05/2018 11:20

It is funny isn't it how contraception seems to work a lot better for those who have to pay for their children rather than those who assume others will.
If not why do the working classes seem to have less kids than the unemployed?

Earn more money if you want more children and can't afford them.

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