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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

902 replies

jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 08:31

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

OP posts:
Smeddum · 05/05/2018 08:56

@jnfrrss I don’t think the people complaining about it consider the figures. They’re too busy being pissed off at their taxes going to welfare and whether they think it’s deserved or not. Facts aren’t relevant to them.

endoflevelbaddy · 05/05/2018 08:57

This is incredibly sad, no denying that.
I do want to add though that I would love a 3rd child but can't afford and don't have the space without having an impact on my existing DCs quality of life and my career so I haven't had any more. It's nothing to do with benefits as I earn too much to qualify for anything, but we had to make a decision and we have to take precautions.

I guess my point is that everyone has to make tough decisions about what's best for their family that sometimes have to be made by head not heart.

goose1964 · 05/05/2018 08:58

I hope all of you saying use contraception never fall on hard times, you could lose your job, be in a car crash. Your partners could get cancer. No One ever thinks it will happen to then. Are we all to say I won't get benefits should anything happen so I won't have this baby?

I have 3 children 2 of whom were conceived whilst on the pill

mither · 05/05/2018 08:58

No contraception is 100%, and by adults taking responsibility do you mean terminating an unplanned pregnancy or is there another way?

No I mean by using contraception.

I know it's not 100% but I was rather referring to the thousands upon thousands who never use anything and just have child after child.

My ndn have 7 children, they are not even 30 yet. Neither of them has had a job, ever. That's what I mean about taking responsibility. For years in the county having a child has been a door opener, a key to benefits and housing and until people start to take responsibility I don't see how that will change.

I was absolutely not referring to genuine accidental pregnancies. And just to be really clear I was not suggesting for a minute that anyone should be having a termination. I'm as anti abortiion as it gets.

EssentialHummus · 05/05/2018 08:59

I think it's complicated. Broadly speaking, people shouldn't have more children than they can afford - I doubt anyone would argue with that. But UC is a "hammer to crack a nut" approach, and doesn't allow for any nuance as far as I can see - what about children conceived of rape or coercion? What about a well-off family who falls on hard times and needs help? What about genuine contraceptive failures? Etc?

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 08:59

I know it's not 100% but I was rather referring to the thousands upon thousands who never use anything and just have child after child

They are in no way the majority though, and in order to stop them, many, many families have been pushed into abject poverty just to appease the masses.

Original poster
jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 09:01

@Smeddum totally agree. Can't see the whole picture. We need more children with the state debt what it is so it's a small investment.

If you want to get annoyed at high taxes then something should have been done many decades ago to peg the state pension to life expectancy. That's where most of the money goes!

OP posts:
Petalflowers · 05/05/2018 09:04

I agree with Boxset. Those working don’t automatically get more wages if they have a third child (apart from child benefit), and many working families will have decided against a third child, due to costs etc. The benefit system isn’t there to,prop up people’s desire for a larger family.

Smeaton · 05/05/2018 09:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 09:05

Very few people venting their frustration actually think about the facts ime. They are projecting their own anger about their situation on to the caricatures of benefits claimants shown in the media/by the government because it’s the easy option.

Judging, sneering and belittling have become the norm.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 05/05/2018 09:06

We need children so we have a future generation of new tax payers, however given neither of the parents work in that article there's a very high chance that the children won't be tax payers like the parents. They tend to copy the main role models in life.

If somebody really wanted a child or to add another to their family then they would find a way to finance it themselves if so important to them. Plenty of work available for those that aren't choosy and have a work ethic.

Smeaton · 05/05/2018 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 09:12

Plenty of work available for those that aren't choosy and have a work ethic

I second bullshit.

Why aren’t people angry about the insecurity of zero hour contracts, crap wages, rising cost of living, exorbitant rents, lack of affordable housing and the rise in the need for food banks?

NewYearNewMe18 · 05/05/2018 09:12

Plus if you're poor how can you afford that every single time there is a microscopic chance?

Pay for it ? you jest surely !!!! people on universal credit and a host of other welfare get free prescriptions, at worst go to the wak in centre at A&E.

Stop making excuses for feckless behaviour. Oh I know, now you're going to invent a scenario where someone is raped on an obscure island and its a 2 week trek to get to civilisation.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 09:13

people on universal credit and a host of other welfare get free prescriptions, at worst go to the wak in centre at A&E

So it’s ok to get that from taxpayer’s money but not benefits? I’m just curious as to what is an acceptable use of public funds, since there are clearly rules.

TeasndToast · 05/05/2018 09:14

Well I was on the Depo shot and only had one fallopian tube when I fell pregnant with the baby I can’t afford. So you didn’t find it hard to avoid getting pregnant? Well I guess your experience must apply to everyone then? So my husband and I should have just given up our sex life as part of our marriage then because my contraception was only 99% effective? Should I have crushed my baby’s skull at 20 weeks gestation because my doctor failed to spot my ‘heavy periods’ were in fact a pregnancy complication and didn’t even suggest testing until I noticed a bump?
Why do you assume us scummy little poor people are scroungers? We both work full time in back breaking manual labour jobs. I’m the person cleaning up the mess your elderly relatives make when dementia sets in. Caring for them and treating them with care and humanity. Yet because we are the working class of the country we should just ‘stop shagging, stop breeding’ and just disappear.

Mrsmadevans · 05/05/2018 09:17

It was brilliant for my DD2 when she was unemployed , when she did get a job and it was few hours and didn't pay her a certain amount it automatically gave her money to account for that . She is now thankfully employed fully and doesn't need it now but we had a good experience with it tbf.

TeasndToast · 05/05/2018 09:17

And the stupidity of some mumsnetters when I posted about my pregnancy just after I discovered it saying, ‘if you can’t afford another baby on your wage you should give it up for adoption’ Yeah, because putting a baby into the care system doesn’t cost the taxpayer a bloody fortune does it? Hmm

saison4 · 05/05/2018 09:17

a unaffordable third child in relation to UC is not just down to failed contraception.

sometimes, people have 3 or more children they can happily afford but then life happens (accident, illness, relationship breakdowns with one parent walking out and avoiding paying CM etc). There can be do many reasons why a family who is fine today may need help tomorrow.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 09:20

shiny You're spouting nonsense.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 09:20

They can also, as can men, choose to use contraceptives or not to have sex.
Except there are some cases where in fact women don't have that option as clearly demonstrated on this thread.

Pickleypickles · 05/05/2018 09:20

I agree with the child cap, it doeant effect existing children so they arent being puniahed but why should someone who works bloody hard only be able to afford 2 kids while someone who doesnt work be able to have 6 or 7 kids? (i live on a council estate and know many many people like this) unfortunately any change made will effect some people negatively and thats sad but something had to be done.

Lifeisabeach09 · 05/05/2018 09:21

The thing is, most times, individuals/families start off being able to afford that child/children then something happens (break up, divorce, death, disability), which means that person or couple can no longer afford to provide for their family as they may have before.
These are those who are being penalised by UC and, in the majority of cases, it's women.
It's not simply the case of if you can't afford kids, don't have them.

Lifeisabeach09 · 05/05/2018 09:22

Just to add though, I do agree there should be caps.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 09:23

I agree with the child cap, it doeant effect existing children so they arent being puniahed

It affected the one in the newspaper article!

i live on a council estate and know many many people like this

I lived on a council estate for years, I still have many friends who live on my old estate. I know far, far more people who work their arses off in MW jobs than the ones you describe. People see what they want to see.

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