To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

This country needs children otherwise you else is going to look after the future old people unless you think we should just import migrant workers from other countries?

The gorvenment should be investing in its people rather then making it harder for people to better themselves? aka university debt in the vast majority of Europe the government PAY people to attend the free / insanely cheap universities, yet the UK wants to emulate the USA were university costs $100K or more and is often the sole reserve of the wealthy.

Lots of wealthy women have abortions too due to finanacial reasons.
Many people want a particular lifestyle and therefore chose to have fewer children.
I think UC sounds like an unfair headache but this arguement won’t raise UC as an issue nor gain you many supporters.
Plenty of people stop at 1 or 2 children simply because they want to ensure the children’s long term prospects.

Financial reasons are a valid reason for abortion and one many make.

UC is not the reason. I don't think you should have a child thinking you can afford it because the state will pay you more child tax credits etc.

The problem is the general fuck up of finances in the U.K. that means people rely on UC etc.

In a country where average rents are 750-1200 for a 2 bed property and houses are many times more than the average income people rely on UC to make up the short fall.

When rents can be 12k a year for a basic flat and a NMW FT job is just under 16k it doesn't work. This is why we have so many families with 2 working adults.

Then add in children and you have the nursery fees of roughly 1k a month Ft.

Add in utilities.

UC needs to exist due to the inconsistencies between wages and cost of living. IV system is dire and causing so much difficulty.

But UC isn't the problem - it's what's causing it to need to exist that needs rectifying.

UC is a disgrace.

But regardless of this, people shouldn't have children unless they can afford to pay for them.
There will be lots of people having abortions because they can't afford unexpected pregnancies, it doesn't just apply to those getting UC.

This is awful. I'd honestly never thought about abortions as a consequence of UC, but even if we focus on the effects on those already born who won't be able to continue feeding and housing themselves once sanctions and cuts kick in, this is a genocidal policy.

Not everyone will agree with you and those who didn't had the courage to post with valid reasons. A number of posters have stated that there are working women who also have abortions due to finances but that has been overlooked in an attempt to stir up fear and anger towards UC

Nobody should be forced into an abortion because of finances. Actually this particular example (although well intentioned by OP) isn’t helpful, because the anger and indignation around it muddies the waters.

And I’m sorry if you feel I was being vitriolic, but I find the routine dehumanisation of people on benefits absolutely abhorrent. Written off, marginalised, targeted and belittled all so someone paying tax can feel morally superior? It’s disgusting.

We ought to bear in mind also that there is less obligation to find a job when you have younger children . Is this a reason why 'families' want to keep reproducing??

Why should anyone see state-sponsored children as a right?

How far do you take that sentiment? We'd save a shit load if we got rid of education.

@LifeBegins yes, that's how some people deal with it (and the Bedroom Tax too apparently) but it's awful that people are pushed into such short time fixes which will eventually increase the family's misery once their income is inevitably reduced or lost.

UC is shit, but not because of the 2-child cap particularly. It's a shitshow of a policy, though.

@Cornettoninja

No, that would have enormous costs to the workforce.

However, living of the state is proven to be inherited through generations.

Do you think childbearing is a right and the state should pay?

We'd save a shit load if we got rid of education

It’s funny how the ones bleating on about taxpayers money and bleeding the system have never considered education, the NHS or various other ways we all take out of the system isn’t it?

We have free healthcare, education,child benefits for first 2 children, up to 24,000 a year free of charge if you need it and yet this still isnt enough is it ? It will never be enough ! You do realise this money has to come from somewhere right ?

All this talk of £1000 a month for a studio flat and earning only £16k a year is pointless - fucking move ! You can earn £16k a year anywhere in the country where rent is comparatively cheap. Christ Almighty some people on here will never be happy will they ?

what do you mean @Smeddum? Everyone is entitled to those services regardless of income and input.

All this talk of £1000 a month for a studio flat and earning only £16k a year is pointless - fucking move

Ah yes, the mythical magic money tree that means people with little or no money can magically find a van, moving costs, fuel and the deposit for a new home. Silly me!

@LifeBeginsAtGin people are entitled to claim benefits, it doesn’t stop them being sneered at and belittled for it

What I mean is that it’s not for anyone else to decide who is deserving and who isn’t.

Because in the midst of all the pearl clutching and misdirected anger, there are people in dire situations, unable to live any kind of life, in order to appease the frothing masses. And that is an appalling indictment of our society that it is deemed acceptable to tolerate it.

I will not be paying any kind of relocation costs regarding a previous flat as I'm currently in private temp accom.
But it will still cost me approx £1600 to move into a 1 or 2 bed house or flat (myself and 2 dcs will not fit into a smaller place!). That's not including the cost of furnishing it, as I accept most people already have furniture.
I don't know how anyone on 16k pa paying £800+ rent will find that kind of money. Short sighted, bunce...

UC is disastrous regardless of whether you think this particular scenario is the fault of the system or not. It's very very scary and really changes perspective on life if you are under the threshold.

The problem I see is that a lot of posters who think it's not an issue are the ones who think benefits are only for people who are unemployed and have a very specific stereotype in mind - you all know it, I don't need to explain it.

Where the truth is that in the economy the government has created many people who are in receipt of benefits are working families who are not paid enough to cover the overwhelming cost of living. I work and have 2 small children and receive working and child tax credits, as well as housing benefit for our extortionate private rent costs, because the government has to accept that workers are not paid enough to even just get by.

One of the most abominable things about UC to me is that they are now removing the concept of tax credits, which are generally seen as a bit of a different breed to say JSA, so that when the tories discuss these issues in the media, they can perpetuate the image of the "lazy, unemployed, benefit leeching masses" instead of the reality of working families that struggle to scrape enough together to carve out a decent life for themselves and their children.

"Ah yes, the mythical magic money tree that means people with little or no money can magically find a van, moving costs, fuel and the deposit for a new home. Silly me!"

16 k a year is right about minimum wage at 40 hours per week. How about get a second job in a pub in the evenings for a couple of months ? Or take some overtime save to get some funds to move - where there is a will theres a way. I do overtime when i need more money - yes id rather not but if i need something to happen I have to make it happen.

Tammy - you misunderstood my post. That's what I was saying.

Not everyone on benifits are 'feckless'. Most are hard working people doing their best in some very difficult circumstances. But there are undoubtably some people who do rely on the system for a life time and don't just use it for the short / medium help for what it was intended. However in my opinion this minority are vulnerable rather than feckless. They haven't been brought up with value or self worth and are always going to struggle in life. Other interventions are needed so that no child grows up feeling under valued.. which is a contradiction in itself.. and one which I don't have an answer for.

On a side note I had a child when I was 17.. this was in the days before any type of top to a wage. My partner and I live on his wages of £550 a month + child benifit. Even back then as a self proclaimed feckless 17 yr old i could work out that i could not afford to get pregnant again... and didn't have another child for 13 years.

No one is saying people can't have a third or fourth child just that the state won't fund it. No-one was forced to have an abortion.
As for Universal credit - some things about it are better, some worse. The tax credit system wasn't perfect by any means, people ended up with thousands of pounds worth of overpayments which caused worry and stress. Universal credit is difficult for the self employed and it seems more punitive with claimants having to look for work once their child reaches a certain age.

@ Smeddum "Because in the midst of all the pearl clutching and misdirected anger, there are people in dire situations, unable to live any kind of life, in order to appease the frothing masses."

True. There have also been elderly Jamaicans deported in order to appease the frothing masses, until said masses decided it wasn't what they wanted after all. UC needs a major scandal for public opinion to be changed, and I think we'll have one before too long, as more and more families are forced onto it. :(