To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

Life, maybe now then people will keep their families smaller in the event that something happens. You can't plan the perfect life but you can be sensible and think can I afford to support x number of children on my own or could DH should something happen?

but I was rather referring to the thousands upon thousands who never use anything and just have child after child.
Just because your neighbour has a large family and haven't worked doesn't mean there are thousands. Try doing some research before letting your (somewhat limited) experience colour your judgement. There are actually very few families in this position. Joseph Rowntree foundation have done lots of research.

I couldn't afford a second child. I've stayed single and sex free for over 10 years to make 100% sure I don't get pregnant and have a child I can't afford. There are other reasons I've wanted to stay single too, I must add.

I'm a left-wing liberal but I would like to see a higher wage, lower benefit society. It's a mess right now.

people see what they want to see

Clearly they do because at no point did i say everyone living on a council estate had 7 kids and dont work. I too know lots of hard working famillies but for the minority people i was talking about, something did have to be done.

YANBU. Universal credit is a completely ideology-based policy. It's shameful how we demonise the poorer end of society here and how successfully the government has got the media to promote the idea of the "feckless poor". Although I am mildly encouraged to see Channel 5 finally showing a few less "Benefit scroungers" programmes and introducing things like "Rich House Poor House". Lots of people pick up their opinions from what they watch on TV.

Why do you assume us scummy little poor people are scroungers? We both work full time in back breaking manual labour jobs. I’m the person cleaning up the mess your elderly relatives make when dementia sets in. Caring for them and treating them with care and humanity. Yet because we are the working class of the country we should just ‘stop shagging, stop breeding’ and just disappear.

This. If Teas was paid properly for her work rather than the shit wages carers are paid she wouldn't even need benefits. The people who benefit most from the welfare state are landlords and employers, not the recipients.

As a country we have a duty to make sure every single child is clothed and fed and warm. If that means we have to subside the odd family who are irresponsible, I can live with that.

I also would like to add, universal credit is a complete fuck up, its a shit system that seems to want to do nothing but keep the poor poor and can be soul destroying. I dont think this is anything to do with the child cap though.

They can also, as can men, choose to use contraceptives or not to have sex.

Women in abusive relationships can't. UC rules make them more vulnerable in a host of ways. Its also not always "simple" to get MAP, even if you are not abused.

UC is a nightmare for the most vulnerable people in society - the very people which even the Rees-Mogg wing of politics pretend to care about.

It does however give nice fat subsidies to the tune of billions to low paying employers and profiteering landlords. That is the scandal which needs addressing, not a few quid a week supporting poor families.

And how would you stay ‘sex free’
in a solid living marriage NameChanger?

How can it be good for society to encourage people to have children they can't afford. The cap allows two children which is highly generous as it is.

It is feckless to put your own wants for a child over their wellbeing when you know you don't have the means to support them. The child suffers for the adults selfish wants.

People aren't being stopped having children, they just need to support them themselves. Not a lot to ask really is it. Quite shameful not too.

Smeaton I only eat 1500 calories a day. That's not a very good argument!

How can it be good for society to encourage people to have children they can't afford. The cap allows two children which is highly generous as it is.

what about those with a change in circumstances who suddenly and unexpectantly find themselves in need of UC?

I’d just like to add, before I worked in elderly care, I worked in family support, working with very vulnerable women. One girl went to get the MAP but couldn’t affford the £28 she was told she needed to pay for it. We live fairly rurally, she didn’t drive and you need to get to a family planning clinic to get it for free. She wasn’t even aware she could get it for free. People on here really do not understand how many people live, not through choice, but through circumstance of birth.

How is this situation any different than if a couple who receive no benefits fall pregnant and decide to terminate because they couldn't afford to have the baby ?

The benefit system in this country is extremely generous - UC is capped around £24,000 and quite rightly ! Do you have any idea how much you have to earn to actually see 24k in a year after tax ?

I paid 25,000 in income tax last year, we needed to make some lifestyle sacrifice to pay for housing expenses etc. Life isn't handed to you on a plate and nor should it !

I'm not on any benefits. My partner and I have a combined income of £60k. We have one child.

If I fell pregnant again, we would probably not continue with the pregnancy because we're not in a great position financially. (we just about get by), and for other reasons.

I don't see why it should be any different for someone on benefits. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it, regardless of where your income is coming from.

Or we could just have policies that mean our lowest paid workers could have a decent house to live in. That’s where most of the welfare goes anyway.

CPAG are challenging the legality of the 2 child rule in court.

Smeaton I only eat 1500 calories a day. That's not a very good argument!

Well whoopy fucking do for you. Adult calorie intake is set at 2000 per day for someone who is ‘average’. You think it reasonable that in this country - one of the richest in the world - we have people who can only manage to feed themselves 75% of an average daily food intake?

Everything you think you’ve seen it all, another one just pops right up.

@PencilsInSpace good! I hope they win!

People are starving and malnourished in the UK in 2018. That is a fact. Why aren’t people angry about this? Why aren’t they angry about the need for food banks, rising homelessness, lack of support?

Can anyone explain why someone on benefits should be paid to have more children yet anyone who works and doesn’t get benefits would have to stop at 2 children due to not being able to afford them?

Genuinely can’t understand why there should be a difference?

Life is shit sometimes and we all have to make hard decisions. I’m struggling to see why people on benefits should be exempt from those difficult decisions.

I’m not sure that the poorest in our society getting a little extra help to clothe and feed their kids is having ‘life handed to you on a plate’ Those who are still struggling in low paid jobs by childbearing age have rarely had anything handed to them. Poor education as a result of living in an area with rubbish schools because their parents couldn’t afford better. Parents with alcohol and drug problems etc. This idea that we all have the same chances is just a pile of shit.

It makes me so sad how uncaring and judgemental our society has become. Some of the comments on here make me want to weep and make me realise how the Government get away with treating people like shit.

This idea that we all have the same chances is just a pile of shit

This is absolutely true.

Also, the language used around benefits claimaints plays a huge part in it. All of the language used by people who are unhappy with the system is emotive, demeaning and dehumanising. Which is deeply unpleasant.