AIBU to ask you to explain cultural appropriation and why it is bad to me

[ConfusedWife1234]

So I am a white woman of mixed European ancestry and I think most of the things I typically wear are European or US American in origin, apart from polo Shirts and khakis (which I learned are Indian in origin, but I did not even know this until recently).

So I am not sure what cultural appropriation is. Is it cultural appropriation:

-If a rich person dresses down
-If a poor person dresses like a billionaire
-If a civilian wears clothes of military origin
-If a white European dresses like a white American
-If a white European dresses like a Afroamerican
-If a young person attends a re-enactment group and dresses up for a historical event that happened before he or she was born

Or is is just cultural appropriation if a person from another culture chooses to dress in a dress worn for special occasion... like this girl who wore a Chinese wedding dress for her prom.

Also why is cultural appropriation bad. Not asking to be snarky here. Really interested to learn.

Is it that the dress is seen as sacred, like maybe a Christian would be offended if someone wore a cross as part of his dress... or is it the idea that a certain style of dress must be earned.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, culture goes deeper than most things. Where someone attempts to imitate an aspect of the culture of another person, this MAY
cause offence, but it is more likely where there are structural inequalities between the two individuals (the one who appropriates and the one who feels their culture has been appropriated). An example of this would be a white person wearing corn rows.

Yeah, I understand what you mean by culture going deeper than most things. As a person with German (as well as other roots) who is interested in classical music I always think that I have yet to meet the person without German roots who can understand our classical music with their heart.
Of course an artist can perform our music but to me it always feels like a piece of the heart of the music is missing. I am not offended by it but I just think non Germans cannot understand our music the way we do.

Would that be cultural appropriation?

Do cornrows have a spiritual meaning? I hear some black hair styles like dread locks do.

I think it could be described as something from an oppressed culture being appropriated by someone from the oppressive culture.

But I might be wrong.

Yes, it's about a member of the oppressing class taking on a simple feature of the oppressed class without reference to its cultural significance.

e.g. a white American wearing a "native" headdress dripping with feathers, with no understanding of the meaning of those feathers and no thought for the genocidal history of European settlers and first nations.

God I hate this bandying around of 'cultural appropriation' as a way to attack people. Cultures have always incorporated aspects of other cultures they come into contact with. It is a good thing! It is good that we share and blend and borrow. I see this as a celebration of our shared humaness. I really dislike the idea underlying criticisms of 'cultural appropriation' as its the idea that we must all stay separate, in our own boxes and never the twain shall meet.

No, cornrows don't have a spiritual meaning. The issue there is that when they are worn by a black person, particularly in America, they are seen as unprofessional and "ghetto" despite being a longstanding way of keeping afro hair neat, and when worn by white people they are seen as fashion forward and cool.

I'm not really getting it either. All fashion and art is about people copying each other. Rock and roll came from blues and jazz which came from traditional African music. I don't think it takes anything away from a culture when another culture copies and adapts their ideas. I have enjoyed many brilliant novels written in translation. I realise some of the meaning is often lost, but does it matter? Surely it is good that I am learning about another culture even if my understanding is not that deep?

I do see a problem where communities are exploited, for example, if there is a particular herbal medicine which a community has used for years and suddenly it gets patented by a multinational and the people who really discovered it can't afford it any more. Hard to see that applying to music or fashion though?

Thanks for explaining... and is it about all clothing or just about ceremonial clothing.

So I learned Polos and khakis are actually Indian in origin, then the british military (in case of the khakis) and tea planters (in case of the polo shirt) picked it up... and now at least to me that feels like very white and very European style of dressing and 99% of people who dress like this seem to be white.
But it goes back too colonialism.

So is this cultural appropriation too?

Cross posted with Mrs Hathaway. I see that the headdress example is offensive but isn't that because there is an element of mockery of an oppressed culture there?

I’m unsure whether cornrows have spiritual significance but over the years black people have been looked down on for having natural hair and felt/feel under pressure to relax and straighten it in order to feel their hair is acceptable. Which obviously is a shitty state of affairs. So when white people sport locks or cornrows etc, they have no understanding or respect (imo) for the struggle that black people have to just wear their hair in a natural style.

Same thing with dressing up in Native American influence clothes as MrsHathoway says. While fashion has always ‘borrowed’ from other cultures, I don’t think that makes it ok. As a Jewish woman I’d not be ok with wearing my hair in cornrows or wearing shalwar Chameez, even though I think both are great. They aren’t mine to wear.

An example.

In Britain we eat lots of food from different cultures. Particularly in big cities there are restaurants showcasing very different cuisines.

Person A was born in the UK to parents. She writes recipe books about food, has an occasional pop-up restaurant, etc.

Person B can trace her British ancestry back to the Civil War, but she spent part of her Gap Yah in . She blogs about food somewhat indiscriminately because she's recently discovered the flavours and loves them.

Person A points out errors in some of the recipes on Person B's blog, along the lines of "fab that you're so keen on but it should really not contain as we don't use it at all - I think you're thinking of from which is also delicious. Why not try using instead?"

If Person B is genuinely interested in learning about other cuisines she engages in a discussion and finds out more about the ingredients and dishes in question.

More often, Person B actually thinks she's the new Dr Livingstone and says that Person A knows nothing about the country and its cuisine and should fuck off.

And yes I agree that there is an element of mockery/humour in wearing Native American headdresses as fancy dress and going “How”. It’s making a joke of an oppressed groups style of dress. I hate to see people at parties or walking about the streets of a weekend dressed as Arabs or Native Americans or dreadlocked wigs etc. It’s horrible and wrong.

I believe that originally elaborate braiding in different styles denoted which village/tribe people were from.

Yeah, I think it is always wrong to make fun of something that means something to another person.
But I was just talking about people who wear an item of clothing (or eat a food, or listen to music) because they like it.

Talking about recipes. I once shared a recipe for a Fastenzeit pretzel traditional for the time after carnival (when we do not eat meat) with an American friend, she served it to her guests with German style sausages... said it tasted better like this... well... maybe but traditionally this was made in order to avoid certain indigridients which are taboo in the time between carnival and Easter such as meat... so the meaning was lost and I think this often is the case.

I love blues music. Blues originated in the Mississippi Delta of the US on cotton and tobacco plantations and was played largely by black (originally enslaved) people. Many migrated to Chicago. Last year I (a white middle-class Englishwoman) had a fantastic holiday following the migration route and listening to (mostly black) musicians play the music of their roots. I put a lot of dollars into a lot of hats and guitar cases for the absolute privilege of listening to them. Was I abusing their culture or recognising the value of it?

When nobody was listening to the blues in the early 60s English bands like the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin and the Animals recorded some of the songs and White America suddenly sat up and took notice. Black musicians got recording contracts and tours off the back of this new-found popularity. Was it cultural appropriation then or humans sharing a love of and skill in producing wonderful music?

Thatˋs interesting popcorn. Similiar to what I hear about Irish pullovers. I heard one can say exactly which village and family the person was from simply from the knitting... but I think those days are long gone.

OP I promise this isn't intended to be snarky but why don't you use Google? There are so many amazing online resources which will help you to understand. MN is great but a mixed bag on complex, nuanced issues like this - you'll get some useful stuff but also a lot of uninformed dross.

Could you name some pages. I googled a bit but found nothing helpful. I only use big and wellknown pages though because I am afraid of computer viruses.

NPR radio website is a trusted site so you could start here if you like - www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/06/28/533818685/cultural-appropriation-is-in-fact-indefensible

When black people play Bach is that appropriation because they are not German, OP?

It’s one of these preposterous notions that suddenly appears out of nowhere. And should go back there.

I live in Bavaria and everyone eats brezen with other stuff eg sausages.

Is it like when i hear the phrase 'sell out' if eg, an asian person acts 'white'?

There is something called Fastenbretzel which is eaten only during Fastenzeit and you don‘t eat meat then. It is the very point if the Fastenzeit, the time between carnival and Easter. Basically because you remember the suffering of Jesus.

And is it appropriation or misappropriation .

I had a turquoise linen tunic with silver beads. Loved it, bought it because I loved it and got lots of compliments. DH used to call it my Bangra top. I used to tell him to belt up. Saw it. Bought it. Loved it. Didn't give two hoots about it's style. It was my natural style and felt me.

I am white, middle class, Jewish and teutonic/eastern European antecedents. I wear what I like.

Andrew, I do not care if black people play Bach. No I do not think it is appropriation. I just think that nongermans typically do not get what Bach was about. I was just answering what peng said about culture going deeper than most things. I wanted to express the feeling that there are many things you cannot take out if the culture without them loosing their heart or their meaning.