AIBU to ask you to explain cultural appropriation and why it is bad to me

[ConfusedWife1234]

So I am a white woman of mixed European ancestry and I think most of the things I typically wear are European or US American in origin, apart from polo Shirts and khakis (which I learned are Indian in origin, but I did not even know this until recently).

So I am not sure what cultural appropriation is. Is it cultural appropriation:

-If a rich person dresses down
-If a poor person dresses like a billionaire
-If a civilian wears clothes of military origin
-If a white European dresses like a white American
-If a white European dresses like a Afroamerican
-If a young person attends a re-enactment group and dresses up for a historical event that happened before he or she was born

Or is is just cultural appropriation if a person from another culture chooses to dress in a dress worn for special occasion... like this girl who wore a Chinese wedding dress for her prom.

Also why is cultural appropriation bad. Not asking to be snarky here. Really interested to learn.

Is it that the dress is seen as sacred, like maybe a Christian would be offended if someone wore a cross as part of his dress... or is it the idea that a certain style of dress must be earned.

The same virtue signalling prat that shamed the girl from wearing a Chinese styled dress to a prom also talks about "non binary" people and so I have precious little doubt that he think men wearing woman face is perfectly fine. This is the trouble with the left, of which I am a part although less and less by the day, they constantly collect "empathy" brownie points whilst simultaneously showing no empathy whatsoever for other causes.

If you want to see district to culture go and visit mainland china, they'll sell you anything as long as you can pay for it, there is no respect within their own culture for traditions and yet we are supposed to observe from 1000s of miles away.

Hmm. It irks me to see hot cross buns promoted in supermarkets from January through to Easter, and that they are on sale all year round.

Because when I see a hot cross bun, it is a highly symbolic food that my family eat on Good Friday and a few days afterwards, as the cross, the spices and the round shape have religious significance in remembering Christ’s death on the cross.

But to most other people, they’re buns that taste good, and there are no doubt families which have them as a year-round staple, and people who don’t share my beliefs who will find my views ridiculous.

When Sainsbury’s sells hot cross buns in June, I’m not getting hurt. No one is spitting on my beliefs. It’s odd for me to know that this thing which has a lot of symbolism for me is just completely devoid of meaning for others🤷🏻‍♀️. Just one of those things. I expect that there are things I do and foods I eat which cause the same feelings in others. I would rather live in a world with more freedoms and acknowledge that sometimes this will happen, than try to pigeonhole people into only being allowed certain things in life because ancestry or background.

I’m just off to borrow the crucifix from the local church to use as a maypole. It’s so amazingly beautiful, and the perfect height,I don’t know much about it’s history, but it’s got such a spiritual vibe around it.......*

What a silly example. Crosses are frequently worn out of context by non-Christian people as fashion accessories and you can even find them on the walls of pubs or in pop concerts with women writhing around them. Madonna even banged black Jesus in Like a Prayer and did a mock crucifixion on stage.

fair isle also an interesting example of a design that has gone worldwide with very little credit ever being given to the largely exploited women

Jesus, this site becomes more of a parody of itself by the hour.

The main message regarding cultural appropriation is "white people, think before doing stuff."

MilicentF people have been doing inappropriate things with Christian crosses for decades. One of the things that bothers me about the current obsession with cultural appropriation is that Christians who dislike seeing crosses used as fashion items (or worse) don't appear to get the same level of consideration.

“Crosses are frequently worn out of context by non-Christian people as fashion accessories and you can even find them on the walls of pubs or in pop concerts with women writhing around them.”

I know. And I think Christians would have the right to be pissed off about that. And would have even more of a right if Christians were a disempowered group whose culture had been over run by a dominant colonial power.

If we're going down cultural appropriation lines, then you could say hot cross buns (and large chunks of Christian tradition) have been appropriated from pre Christian Pagan culture (where bread was baked with a cross)

I'm not sure that we can or should untie the knot of history, and how one culture, music, fashion, food etc feeds into, is adopted, influenced or appropriated by others.

I'm not sure that we can or should untie the knot of history, and how one culture, music, fashion, food etc feeds into, is adopted, influenced or appropriated by others.

But we should accept that if white people take important aspects from the cultures of people they have decimated and marginalised, to use as fashion accessories, it's perfectly reasonable for them to be called out as stupid, vapid and ignorant.

But we should accept that if white people take important aspects from the cultures of people they have decimated and marginalised, to use as fashion accessories, it's perfectly reasonable for them to be called out as stupid, vapid and ignorant.

"Cultural appropriation" is the most backward, dead end theory of culture. It is a complete misreading of how culture and cultural diffusion works, and is about control and gate-keeping, two things that simply do not work in modern Western, capitalist society.

The funny part is if we really wanted to start assessing cultural appropriation it's Europe and the USA that have been most "appropriated" globally.

The funny part is if we really wanted to start assessing cultural appropriation it's Europe and the USA that have been most "appropriated" globally.

You must surely see how it's different when your colonies start looking a bit like you!

The funny part is if we really wanted to start assessing cultural appropriation it's Europe and the USA that have been most "appropriated" globally.

You're mistaking a deliberate attempt by Europe and the US to export their cultures with the ignorant sampling/plundering of other cultures by those in Europe and the US.

“You're mistaking a deliberate attempt by Europe and the US to export their cultures with the ignorant sampling/plundering of other cultures by those in Europe and the US”

Yup. My aforementioned posh white son busking with an exterminated culture’s sacred musical instrument on the streets of an English cathedral city is not the same as a member of that culture drinking Coke.

Emerence has it, culture is not a costume that can be taken on and off.

As a white person, you can experiment with wearing dreadlocks but you’re not going to more regularly pulled over by police, or more likely to be shot by police, or experience the thousand other instances of discrimination that black people suffer.

its even worse IMO when people profit from taking elements from another culture, and removing any cultural significance. White people running “African drumming groups”. White people teaching yoga as exercise with no concept of the spirituality. Corporations using NA imagery in their products. Elvis adopting elements of black music but, because he’s white, manages to become one of the most famous musicians in history. Can you name any of the black American punk groups who were instrumental in founding that movement? Most likely not.

These things don’t exist in a vacuum.

Splodge " It seems to me that deciding on the basis of someone’s outward appearance if they truly belong to a certain culture is what racism actually is, not people wearing items from other cultures. "

I missed this yesterday. Exactly. It's like all the times I'm told I'm not English in spite of being....English. It's all about skin colour.

I have a friend who won't say namaste at yoga because CA. I'm not there for anything spiritual either. A poster mentions that. My atheist uncle taught me yoga. I suppose that offends too.

Cultural appropriation is quite simply mad and based on a bunch of deeply abhorrent assumptions.

But we should accept that if white people take important aspects from the cultures of people they have decimated and marginalised...

This is accusing prople of something they haven't done, just because of the colour (white) if their skin.

There's a huge difference between white Americans wearing Native American headdress, when the ancestors of the white Amercans were responsible for the genocide of Native Americans, and the Native Amercans are still oppressed to this day..

... and a girl in America wearing a Chinese dress when China actively exports such dresses - their tourist industry sells them to foreigners even.

@scottlang that was a pretty niche comment for someone who’d already used a knitting example if your interested in the garment industry/textile history that is actually quite interesting - it’s about how women’s labour is often taken for granted and used to make other people money. I’m this case it happened in the UK in the 20th century. So how about you “think before doing stuff” too.

I think that’s a good example of trying too hard to make the concept fail - I think the point is Kraftwerk had their dues, are very well known and if they are sampled specifically they have to get credited and money.

That's about music royalty's. It's a legal issue not a cultural one.
Hip Hop, right from the start, sampled European electronic music. Kraftwerk being the obvious example

In a more general way there is an issue with the fact black artists have been ‘ahead of the game’ in pop music for decades but white artists can become very successful making similar music where black artists don’t have that initial leg up.

Yes but it works both ways. Pop music, rock and roll, was also influenenced by folk music

If we shouldn't be using aspects of 'oppressed' cultures, surely we shouldn't be eating Indian food in that case given the colonial history. Better tell all the Indian-owner restaurants.

But we should accept that if white people take important aspects from the cultures of people they have decimated and marginalised

What about when white people have done that to other white people?

www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/the-mad-bad-crusade-against-cultural-appropriation/

artreview.com/features/ar_december_2017_feature_cultural_appropriation_kenan_malik/

Two articles on CA in the arts and interesting ideas on the lack critical thinking about ideas of CA .

🙄

Most of the “Indian restaurant owners” are Indian. No one but them is profiting from people eating and enjoying Indian food. Very different from a large brand mining cultures for imagery, isn’t it?

"What about when white people have done that to other white people?"
Can you give an appropriate example?

Are we thinking about tartan? I have a feeling (but cba to look it up) that there's clearance history of banning tartan so wearing it nowadays particularly for ceremonial events is a political as well as sartorial statement. Though possibly more difficult to identify the oppressed and oppressing class at this intermarried remove.