To meet up with MIL to discuss broken wine glass!

[pugreverywhere]

Can't believe the previous thread reached a thousand posts, thanks so much for your support everyone!

I ended up reading MIL's facebook messages for me this morning. Turns up she wants to meet up at a café this weekend to smooth things over "without the boys knowing". She also said she would bring the egg pram back (?!).

Haven't replied yet. DH was pretty upset last night; not sure if he is actually considering going NC with his father. If so, it wouldn't be fair of me to meet up with his Mum in secret - but she's always been lovely to me and I'd hate for my GC having no GP in his life.
Ugh! Still so gutted over this whole thing.

You have all posted some very good advice so I am going to sit and read through it until I decide what we do now.

Oh, and the same thought, as others mentioned, occurred to me, as to why FIL actually acted this way after 4 years of seemingly being ‘nice’ towards you.

If I have learned nothing else from MN, it's that this is SOP for abusers.

I wish I'd found mn EONS ago. Would have saved me a lot of stress and heartache.

I think people have made a bit of a leap from "We'll reduce contact for a time in the wake of this frankly bonkers behaviour" to "We will never, ever, ever see them ever again".

because I suspect there are 2 types of MNetter. The first has never had any experience with abusive, narcissistic, controlling behaviour - especially from parents/in-laws.

The others have.

Just to throw an example here ... how many people have experienced their MiL (who had keys to our home) sneaking in, deliberately moving our possessions into DSs room, so that we would punish him, and she could swoop in and go "there, there, what nasty parents (particular your dad) you have. Not like your nice nana ....".

I have enough for a book, believe me ...

Mumsnet tends to strip out the grey areas and to go very black-and-white about everything. I don't know why.

because abuse is abuse ?

Sorry to hear they are putting you though such a stressful time whilst you are pregnant with your first child.
I agree with other posters that they are trying to gain control over both of you and the child, by buying expensive gifts that put you under an obligation to them and then making unreasonable demands.
We were once lent a small sum so that we could top up our house deposit allowing us to get a better mortgage, and it was used to make all kinds of requests/demands.
I think your DH was right to make a stand and that you should take his lead.
Blocking on facebook is a bit dramatic and will be used against you I think. Better to just not open the messages.
I also think you should let it calm down. Meeting MIL now will only add more fuel to the fire as its unlikely the two of you can solve the issues between DH and FIL... Just say to her I think things need to calm down.
FIL is very mean and very controlling and you should be VERY careful about his behaviour - you have a child to thinkabout, and your own health whilst pregnant. Personally I think these very selfish in laws should take a hike.

DGRosetti - I've experienced my MIL trying to break up my marriage. I've had my wedding criticised by her as 'boring', and she routinely speaks to me like a ten year old child. DH is physically sick when he has to be around her.

I've also come through sexual and violent abuse from my own home.

Maybe, in future, don't assume that people who are saying there are grey areas have no experience of abuse.

WTF ! I am actually getting adverts for drinks glasses ( expensive ones !) on my computer since I followed this thread.

To those who still insist on trotting our tut fil is early stage dementure the op says he was unpleasant and controlling for years to get dh while a child onwards.

Altzimers which I suggest is what you mean does not equate unpleasantness and bullying behaviour.

Where is the kindness in all of this?

You break s glass and FIL sends you an email and text about paying for it - crass and unkind.

MIL says if you pay her £60 she'll pay the difference - weird but maybe all she can afford and perhaps an attempt at kindness.

Your DH reacts strongly - understandable. He returns the presents, presumably bought with love and joyful anticipation, throwing them over the wall when the gate is not opened. I disagree with other posters. I don't think this is laudable, I think it is crass and unkind. (And we know where he learned that behaviour.)

Your MIL tries desperately to establish some contact, phoning both you and your DH. You don't answer. She sends you 11 messages on Facebook which you ignore until today. I think your behaviour is unkind. I see that you are trying to support your DH, and he is trying to support you. But I think that you are also being unkind.

Who is going to teach your DC kindness?

Can you or your dh make sense of why up until now he looked up to his father and wanted his approval despite been treated badly by him but yet he's not close to his mother because she didn't stop said treatment?

What an unpleasant man FIL is. I have now sat and read the first thread and now this one too.
I'd just follow Mr Pugs lead. They are afterall his parents.
I think it's probably better this has come to a head now rather than once your child is here and having a relationship with the GP's
I think all is well in FIL's world so long as everyone is towing the party line, he made a big mistake with the glass billing, an error he can't come back from, he'd see it as losing face.
Mil is just doing what Fil has trained her to do, even so far as not backing your Dh as a child against his father.
I feel quite sorry for her, she seems like a weak person.
My Mil has never met my two youngest and the oldest was 3 last time she met him (he's 30 this summer) They all know she exists and Dad will have nothing to do with her, his Mum his choice. If it were my Mum that was causing my little family trouble and I wanted to cut her out, he would back me up too.
Pity you can't just cut out Fil and let Mil be part of things on her own if she is really OK. I'd do nothing in secret, that is the stuff that causes marriage problems.

Moredoll I think that post is lacking insight and actually massively out of order.

Faux kindness used to disguise control and bullying is not acceptable - THAT is what the IL's have done.

WTF ! I am actually getting adverts for drinks glasses ( expensive ones !) on my computer since I followed this thread.
I’m getting adverts for cheap ones
OP my DH had 50 years of controlling crap from his dad and enabling from his mother before reaching crunch point and waking up to it. We are very low contact now, his choice, I said I would support what he wanted, but suggested minimal rather than no contact might be the best option. I refused to engage with all the manipulative messages addressed to me and returned the letters unopened. His family, his relationships to manage, not mine. DH is the happiest he has ever been and his migraines, irritable bowel and chest pains have vanished.

More you either haven't 📖 the threads or you have selective reading.

The pram he threw over the fence had been foisted on them, as if their own choice and ££ choice wasn't good enough.

He then said the fil. Don't ask for anything ever again

The pram was symbolic because they didn't ask for it.
My dm died before she knew she would have gc. She was quite old too.
I just can't imagine her buying into asking the woman carrying her precious gc for 60 to a glass.

Childbirth is dangerous and painful and having committing to bringing a child into this world is a huge responsibility on the dm. Support the mum to be. Where're is the kindness to her?

I mean women can be left with life long injuries after the Labour, their body changes. She is going to go through all this and all he cares about is his glass.
Op has shown kindness and much more to her dh by standing by him and not going behind his back. Her dh ♯ shown kindness to her the mother of his unborn child by standing up to his df and his nasty aggressive note. Lucky baby in its immediate family much kindness and love is being shown.

He was never close to MIL; it always bothered him that she would never stick up for him whenever FIL was treating him poorly.

Yes - exactly, They are both toxic.

OP I know this must be really hard for you if you come from a "normal" family but you really should follow DH lead in this. He needs protecting from these people as much now as when he was a child. If he wants to you to block MIL on fb then do it. Same with your phones, if that is what he wants.

Seriously, sometimes no GP is better than GP like these two.

As PP have suggested, is there any chance you could move away, nearer to your DPs once baby arrives?

You sound very caring and very sensible, you will be a lovely mum

I think you're handling it just fine. I agree that blocking immediately may not be the best way to go for now at least though

OP, I don't know if it's possible to hide people on FB, but if it is, that might be an option, if you don't feel comfortable with blocking your MIL.

If she comes round, don't answer the door to her. It was what they did to DH when he went round, so she can't complain about you doing it to her.

These are DH's parents. You need to follow his lead. If he wants to have nothing to do with them, don't go behind his back, trying to keep a relationship going.

I've found that to have a truly good relationship with your partner, there needs to be openness and honesty, if you have to hide anything, or deceive, it's not a good relationship.

Lonesurvivor - it's a common dynamic because the fil DEMANDS respect (needs it, panics if he doesn't get it, needs his position as the alpha CONSTANTLY reaffirmed especially publicly - that would include how he's seen by DIL as she isn't part of the family of origin so she's an observer, not being IN complete control means feeling OUT of control) and also it's highly likely the mil was frequently belittled by him AND it suited her to play a martyr role - both for self-preservation and because there are pay offs in that role (not having to take responsibility, blaming the controller for all of it, eliciting sympathy, while also reaping the benefits of her child being under abusive control).

Op's dh has been conditioned ALL his life to maintain this dynamic and not upset the status quo.

Other forms of abuse are sometimes at play but don't need to be. It's very easy to condition a child with simple provision or withdrawal of affection. And what we learn as children we take into adulthood. That's why it's also common that the children of toxic parents find it so hard to confront that - hence frustrated dil's with sons that DAREN'T even question their family's way of doing things which is what we usually see on these type of threads.

And I'm sure on more male dominated forums there are just as many frustrated sil's as there are dil's here.

When I first went Nc with my father my ex for all his other faults was very supportive and until I reached that point didn't say what he thought I should do. But when I did, said with great relief "about bloody time!" I'm very lc with father. It's hard to maintain Nc too I've found. I'm also Nc with my sister who frankly has turned into my father. Been Nc with her twice before and been persuaded to 'forgive' by my mum but that will not be happening again. Mainly because this time even mum agrees what she did was unforgivable!

Not only is there pressure from within the family it's from without too. Because very few people in real life understand the dynamic and the issues. So there's a lot "ohhhh but it's your dad/sister/family surely that matters more than anything they could have done" and honestly I don't want to stand and describe 30+ years of quite harrowing abuse to even my closest friends. Let alone as is often the case with those making such comments, people barely more than acquaintances.

Sorry that went a bit long but is hopefully enlightening for those with less experience of this type of family.

Who is going to teach your DC kindness?

We don't need to be kind to people who treat us like shit. We are PERFECTLY entitled to go low or no contact with people that treat us like shit.

We can teach our children that treating other people like shit gets you ignored and doesn't get you anywhere.

The OP doesn't have to be a doormat to abusive people in order to teach her children kindness.

Jesus wept!

Please remember that whilst you are upset by this, Mr Pug feels worse because these are his parents.

I imagine they have used money & power to influence him his whole life.
Please listen to him, if he wants you to block them, then block them.

I think you need to examine your own motivations for wanting to continue contact with them. If you do not follow his lead on this, and respect his wishes (they are his parents after all) perhaps you are a little too taken with their wealth & have yet to fully understand the implications of accepting help from people like this.

You are having a baby. you can do this as a family of 3. You will survive it better if you accept this. You married him, not his parents & their money.

Faux kindness used to disguise control and bullying is not acceptable - THAT is what the IL's have done.

Reaching out to someone who is genuinely distressed is not faux kindness. It is genuine kindness.

The pram he threw over the fence had been foisted on them, as if their own choice and ££ choice wasn't good enough.

Speculation.

@Flooffloof

If you actually go nc, children have no idea that they are missing out on a gp. And if they do at a later age ask questions, don't you just answer with "they were a awful person, and like any other person, if you don't like them you have no need to stay in touch"

I agree with this. My mother was NC with my father's side of the family, apart from one aunt, and it never even occurred to us children that it was odd. It was just 'how it is'. Years later when we had a bit of contact we realised she was right

Speculation.

Why else would someone buy an expensive pram, when the parents-to-be had already chosen and bought one that suited them?

But look at HOW the mil reached out - in a divisive, infantilising way and trying to reassert control by getting op to take the UNWANTED pram back. That's not kindness that's manipulation.

Kindness would have been asking to speak to them BOTH, not using infantilising language, not trying to just brush it all under the rug, not even mentioning the sodding pram!

Is everyone else seeing this advert under this thread?