To meet up with MIL to discuss broken wine glass!

[pugreverywhere]

Can't believe the previous thread reached a thousand posts, thanks so much for your support everyone!

I ended up reading MIL's facebook messages for me this morning. Turns up she wants to meet up at a café this weekend to smooth things over "without the boys knowing". She also said she would bring the egg pram back (?!).

Haven't replied yet. DH was pretty upset last night; not sure if he is actually considering going NC with his father. If so, it wouldn't be fair of me to meet up with his Mum in secret - but she's always been lovely to me and I'd hate for my GC having no GP in his life.
Ugh! Still so gutted over this whole thing.

You have all posted some very good advice so I am going to sit and read through it until I decide what we do now.

Your child won't remember that their pushchair wasn't the poshest. They'll always remember the first time they realised that granddad's love was conditional on compliance.

^ this

Oh yes! WhendoIget, the lady on the checkout and the lovely guy?
I'd love to know how that's going on! 💏
So sorry! Back to Fil and the Glass!
OP - I'd go along with what Dh says in this, it's his family, something in what happened, really touched a nerve with him. Back him up!

'At this point I am very tempted to just follow my husband's lead and support him in whatever move he wants us to take next. '

Please do this! He really needs your support. And children do need a toxic grandparent in their lives.

Just supporting your husband sounds like the perfect thing to do

" Behaving out of character, irrational, suspicious and money focussed."

I don't think that that applies though-hasn't FIL always been like that?

I'm really getting a strong feeling that those posters saying 'this is all over nothing' have NO real life experience of toxic families.

Because it seems those of us who DO Know exactly what will happen if op & dh give an INCH at this point. Which is

A op & dh will NEVER hear the end of it. EVERY Minor disagreement this will be thrown in their faces.

B IL's will see it as a huge win. And as a green light to try and exert more control

C the next time such a situation arises it will be MUCH harder for op & dh to deal with because the IL's will be even more stubborn because in their minds they gave in the last time so they just need to dig in until they give in.

D the next time could well be when baby is here, when op&dh are also dealing with all the demands of parenting and depleted emotional resources. Which also makes it much harder.

It is NOT the same as dealing with normal healthy parents.

My parents are the toxic ones. When I was married my IL's had a very different relationship in their family BUT because I was used to what I'd been raised with whenever there was a disagreement, misunderstanding I got SO anxious because I (naturally given my upbringing) feared it would escalate into a huge row with awful things being said and people getting really hurt.

"NC should really only be for people that are dangerous/addicts/you feel will harm your child." Such behaviour IS harmful/dangerous.

Emotional abuse is JUST as damaging as other abuse (and believe me I've had it all!) it has long term serious effects.

Ghetto is right too. Going Nc if problems persist avoid/reduce mh stress rather than add to it. There are MANY posters who say it was a tough decision, took them a long time to get to that point BUT it ended up being the best thing they ever did.

Also I'm probably a similar age to the IL's AND I worked in elderly nursing for several years and had relatives with different types of dementia - and the dementia thing is nonsense! It's very rare to develop it so early PLUS op has been clear he's ALWAYS been like this. That does not indicate a new/recent medical issue at all.

Op is right to follow dh's lead on this. He knows them best especially as they've likely been putting on a 'best face' for op.

Not sure how interested everyone is at this point but I am just updating as this unfolds as I am just sitting at home pregnant anyway!

DH responded to my e-mail from work saying I can just block MIL as he is fed up and couldn't be bothered with either of them. He is not on FB himself. I messaged him back saying we don't have to act right away and we could give it a few days so we all can clear our heads a bit. Blocking her and going NC right away seems a bit drastic.

I am also worried she'd pop by our house unannounced when DH is at work and I am home. I have a feeling that's something she would do

expatinscotland I think that you mean don't and if you do mean don't then I completely agree

I am also worried she'd pop by our house unannounced when DH is at work and I am home. I have a feeling that's something she would do

Lock yourself in then.

pug if she does it is OK to not answer the door while you and dh have time to process this. Does she have a key?

Nope she has no key. Thank God!

I think blocking her might inflame things.

It's interesting that you said at the start you'd always got on ok but so much more has now been revealed and you even think mil would not hesitate to come round uninvited and unwanted.

That alone is something which many dil's hate.

So simply ignoring her would probably be best for now.

BUT I understand where dh is coming from. For him this is DECADES of hurt, only being loved conditionally, money and things meaning more than love, control, lack of support from his mum, bullying from his dad - finally coming out.

It sounds like she would. In which case put it to DH and ask him what he would like you to do.
I definitely think following his lead is best but you’re handling it brilliantly by suggesting giving it a few days.
He will be in a lot of emotional turmoil and you’re able to see it for what it is with less emotion skewing your vision.

LightDrizzle

Gets it ...

FIL could even use this baby to hurt his son more by being sooo devoted to it, just the most loving grandpa, because of course the baby is perfect, unlike disappointing DH.

Oh yes

Behaving out of character, irrational, suspicious and money focussed.

It's not out of character! OP has already SAID that this was the way her husband has been treated all of his life!

FIL is not demented. He's an arsehole.

OP, you and husband stick together, you two and the little one are the most important ones here.

follow your dh lead here

He can't 🐝 bothered.. Then try and put it all out of your mind and concentrate on something else.

You don't have to go NC-but it does sound as if you will need very firm boundaries in place & a plan of how to stick to them & not get sucked back in & then shit on like this again.

I'd stick with your hubby on this. By all means, I'd tell him that your MiL has messaged you and then see how he wants to go. He's been completely supportive of you in this, so I think I'd take my lead from him and not go behind his back.

I don't know. I think that if you can meet up with mil then you should - only if dh agrees of course, you do need to support him. However anything which sheds a bit more light on the situation could be helpful.

Do you actually like the egg pram, or is this a perfect opportunity to get rid of something you really hate?

Why don't you not block MiL but just block the actual messages for a bit. Send her one saying sorry but you can't keep this secret from DH and you both need a bit of time so won't be in contact just now. Then block the messages on FB and route her number to voicemail on your phones.

If she does come round and you know that she’ll know you’re there and you don’t want to just ignore her, then grab your bag and a folder and be ‘just leaving for a medical appointment’ (something vague like ‘out’ or a ‘meetings friend’ she may feel she can trump as it’s ‘family’).
But tell her clearly ‘I appreciate that you want this all to be fixed and for everyone to be friendly again, but if you really want this to get to a point where everyone can move on, then you need to give DH time to consider how he wants this to work. I won’t be meeting with you behind his back. Any gifts will be donated to a charity and DH will return the car and the glass this weekend. I won’t keep secrets from my husband, and we’ve got to consider DC and try to reduce any stress that could be damaging to the baby. So if you could just give us time and space while we decide what we want to do.’

It lets her know that she can’t sideline DH and that you won’t be playing the pacify IL game or be bought by expensive gifts

No way would I want such a toxic man breathing around my dc.
Be prepared for mil calling round. Don't open the door like they didn't open the gates for your dh. Not tit for tat, just a taste of their own. Your dh is fab.

MiL is applying her way of being with FiL onto OP. Clearly by saying 'let's meet without the boys' she knows that there's no talking to FiL - by her or by anyone else. She must be well used to it by now and this is how MiL's probably had to operate on a number of things throughout the years - keeping stuff on the downlow because she knows FiL is a nasty controlling bully.

Sadly with personality disordered people there is no 'nice' way to sort things - you're then engaging with them (which is what they want, for you to conform to their narrative) and when you're engaging with them invariably you're being harmed by them. Sadly, that goes for engaging with MiL as well. When you engage with one you are be definition engaging with the other. MiL going forward would likely be primed before every visit with an outpouring of nastiness and 'suggested', engineered and controlling behaviours or machinations, direct from FiL, so even without him there, his influence will be there. It won't stop any derogatory messages from FiL, they'll just come through MiL again, even if only accidentally mentioned, doing their damage still.

The future grandparental 'relationship' OP might have to look forward to might be like the one on a recent post where the GM and GP went off with their DDs two grandchildren by prior agreement and completely lost one of them out in the countryside for 45 minutes, then turned it all back on their DD, got nasty when she tried to find out what had happened, absolved themselves of any responsibility, told the child it was his fault (he was age 5), the GM cried and hid in her room with the door shut not talking to her DD instead of sorting the issue out!! She too 'wasn't the controlling one' but it doesn't matter, she's under the controlling one's control so she too isn't fit to operate as a GP if she's incapable of ignoring his influence.

THAT'S the kind of future it could be and in some variation of that, probably will be. There'll be all kinds of riding roughshod over OP and her DHs wishes - you can just see it, and whether you would ever feel truly safe leaving a child supervised in their care, I'm not sure I would because no matter what they did wrong they'd always be able to justify it in their minds and blame someone else for it.

For OPs DH I am sure it's an incredibly difficult and very sad time as having to do this will have forced him to reflect on and acknowledge how bad things really were and how long they've been going on for and a lot of adjustment needed to then live with that knowledge especially if you have to conclude that the only course is NC. It's a very big decision that OP and her fabulous DH have to make together but it has to be led by him as they're his DPs but OP has a definite right to have a say because of the effect there could be on her and on their child going forwards by maintaining a relationship with them.

Tell her no and her son is too upset to deal with her and his dad for now so just leave us alone to come to terms with this event and what'll happen moving forwards

They're idiots, and they're spoiling the best things about their lives .... stupid idiotic behaviour and selfishness has stiffed them

Bless you, sorry it's come to this x

Least you won't be sent an invoice for every item their grandchild ruins whilst at their home x