To insist my son has a chaperone when visiting the headteacher?

[exasperated101]

My son is a "difficult" child. We're awaiting ADHD diagnosis at the moment but it's a slow process. He's in year 6, and this week climbed a fence and ran away from school in the middle of the day (to his childminder's) as there had been an incident at school, for which he felt he had been unfairly punished.

He puts on a huge bravado front but is actually extremely sensitive, cries a lot etc. One of his big problems is an extremely strong sense of what is right and wrong. If he feels he's been wronged or unfairly treated (which is often not the case) his behaviour deteriorates hugely and he can be horrible.

When DS ran away this week, his headteacher let himself into our home. My DP was here but we don't think the headteacher knew that, he'd entered our home looking for my missing DS (school still hadn't called me at that point). DS is scared of the headteacher, and the head has admitted to me that my son's attitude / disrespect makes him feel defensive and he feels his blood pressure rising when around him. DS swears that the headteacher terrifies him and shouts at him when they're alone, but his attitude towards head is cheeky and disrespectful. That's just how my DS presents when he feels threatened/scared. He doesn't cower, cry, go quiet like other children. He becomes defensive and rude. The meltdown comes later.

In light of the above, I've asked to be present when DS is alone with the head, for everyone's sakes. The head has refused. He says I'm missing the point which is my son's bad behaviour (I'm not defending son's behaviour, just want to be there).

AIBU to want someone to supervise these meetings?

@GnotherGnu

As far as the school is concerned, that's the standpoint, otherwise they'd be listening to parents and "borderline ..." and "suspected ..."

I am thankful to say that school put support in place well before any formal diagnosis for my two. Just as well seeing as diagnosis took nearly two years. School-based support in any case should be based on need rather than diagnosis (or at least this is the party line trotted out by the local authority). And I think any child who is stressed to the point that he jumps over a fence and runs away from school has some level of need (and probably quite a high level of need).

What's borderline about this. gamenight? Two educational psychologists say the diagnosis is likely, one of those has made a referral to the ASD/ADHD clinic, following the completion of questionnaires OP's DS has had a screening appointment which resulted in referral to a paediatrician. Everything OP says about her child's behaviour screams ADHD and possibly more. A school that digs its heels in and says this is a child that definitely doesn't have ADHD would be a deeply incompetent school. The fact that this one has been found by Ofsted to require improvement doesn't sound in the least coincidental.

@GnotherGnu

I have no idea about this case. I was explaining why schools wait for diagnosis before labeling a child.

"Everything OP says about her child's behaviour screams ADHD and possibly more."

I bow down to your years of training and experience and qualifications.

"A school that digs its heels in and says this is a child that definitely doesn't have ADHD would be a deeply incompetent school."

Yes. They'd say 'we don't know as we aren't qualified despite screaming evidence'.

Ah, coincidence! The bedrock of intelligent opinion and decisions.

*"Diagnosis does not magically confer a child with a condition."

Actually, that's exactly what it does, especially within a school setting.*

game schools can act pre diagnosis and in many cases they do because they have no choice. Diagnosis just formalises the process. Clearly you haven’t a notion what you are talking about. Your points on diagnosis are absurd. If a child has a condition they have the condition before, during and after the diagnostic process.

gameNight you keep banging on about intelligence but you have absolutely zero knowledge seemingly. Parents of SEN children do become experts in ASD /ADHD because they have to to best support their children. We attend courses , read widely and take advice from professionals.

What experience do you have that makes you an expert ?

@taratill

I certainly don't claim to be an expert.

I can claim;

32 years working in schools. I began work (first graduate job) in a school for children with multiple and complex needs. It was a steep learning curve as my specific training in this area as slim to none. After 5 years I moved to mainstream (Independent) schools with few children with AEN in them although I still try to keep abreast of developments in these areas.

While I'm now a Head of Key Stage and Literacy Coordinator in an excellent school, I have been Head of School and Principal.

I'm a published author on Dyslexia.

And it scares the bejessus out of me that you are a teacher and an expert on dyslexia and yet you believe that diagnosis is more significant than need and seem not to know that the law states that EHCPs are granted on the basis of the child’s needs not the diagnosis (although obviously a diagnosis does help).

Gamer if a child is struggling with reading and spelling and is not diagnosed with dyslexia do you support them with strategies you would use with dyslexic children or do you refuse to do so unless they are diagnosed?

Jesus wept game you work in schools and are a publisher author on dyslexia.

I also have a child with dyslexia she was getting support from her first year in school prior to getting a diagnosis. In fact their approach to her did not change one jot after getting the formal diagnosis because she is in an excellent school, with fabulous teachers who (all barring one single teacher in 9 years of schooling now) met her needs to their utmost ability before, during and after diagnosis. I despair when I read posts from teachers who see diagnosis as the defining characteristic for a child’s needs. It is unbelievably frustrating when people who have some power in shaping childrens futures are so rigid in their thinking.

Until they have a diagnosis, it is the logical and sensible position to say he doesn't. This isn't fixed and when presented with new evidence they you could say that he does.

No, it is the logical and sensible position to try techniques with him as if he does have the condition to see if it helps him.

DS2’s school did this with him when he used to have meltdowns (and yes, they were meltdowns) and it helped. He does not have a diagnosed condition and he grew out of his “volcano moments”. He is now a well mannered teen. the school recognised that many of his behaviours were similar to ASD or ADHD and helped him cope with them similarly. Obviously this did not include 1-1 support or anything like that.

@taratill

I'm still not claiming to be an expert on anything. Nothing's changed in the few minutes since my last reply to you.

If you read my post again you would know that knowledge of EHCP's has no effect whatsoever on my job.

We fortunately support each and every child with specific strategies. It's wonderful.

"if a child is struggling with reading and spelling and is not diagnosed with dyslexia do you support them with strategies you would use with dyslexic children"

No. That would be moronic. You do know that dyslexia doesn't mean 'a bit shit at spelling', don't you?

Some strategies could work but the over-extension and the simplification would do little more than placate parents. We would try different teaching methods and have intensive intervention before moving to specific dyslexia strategies.

The most common cause of poor reading ability is bad eyesight. Secondly is lack of reading and support at home. We don't immediately jump to a diagnosis of AEN but you have made a very valid and important point; Lack of ability is not the same as an AEN. Not all children are capable of achieving the same.

Good schools support children individually. We don't need a label but even more importantly, we don't label children based on parents feelings.

I stick by my statement that in the eyes of the school (and everyone else), the boy does not have ADHD until it is diagnosed.

Any medical professional would agree.

"Does your child have x?"

"Yes"

"Who diagnosed it?"

"Well, no one yet."

Good schools support children individually. We don't need a label but even more importantly, we don't label children based on parents feelings.

Absolutely contradicts everything else you are saying.

Labelling children what a pile of tosh. Is a broken leg a label to you?. Do you think paramedics should wait for the magic diagnosis or maybe triage based on what they see in front of them. You don’t even believe the tosh you are writing so I am just going to ignore the drivel you are spouting.

@PinkbicyclesinBerlin

"Absolutely contradicts everything else you are saying."

No.

"Is a broken leg a label to you?"

Yes. Is it not to you? It means a leg is broken. Until that point the casualty had a painful (probably) leg.

You clearly don't have the capacity to understand why 'triage' is an awful analogy.

Kudos for addressing me before deciding you will ignore me. It definitely gives you the last word and you'e clearly the 'winner'.

Am I correct in my guess that you diagnosed your own children and met teachers who didn't immediately bow to your superior knowledge?

Not rtft but has anyone acknowledged that the op's son doesn't show difficult behaviour, he shows distressed behaviour: All.behaviour is communication . I say this as a teacher and parent of a child with adhd.

Right, gamenight, if you would treat a child with a possibly fractured leg simply as someone with a sore leg because no doctor has specifically diagnosed it, you risk causing that child serious damage. On the other hand, if you treat a child with a sore leg with particular care in case it is fractured, you would simply be being sensible.

If it appears highly probable on the views of two educational psychologists that a child has ADHD, and a screening test is pointing sufficiently towards that to lead a paediatrician's appointment, you would have to be incompetent as a teacher to work confidently on the basis that the child does not have ADHD. Given that he obviously has a presentation consistent with ADHD, how could it conceivably harm him to use ADHD-type strategies? And how would it help him to punish him as if he was nothing more than a badly behaved child?

Firstly I would want to know what the school are going to do about the other child who bullied your son to the point he retaliated who then due to sod’s law got told off by the teacher and the bully seems to be getting off Scot free. Your child couldn’t handle his emotions had a melt down and ran away. I would want a plan in place where he could go when feeling stressed. Where is the Senco during all of this.

Secondly - I would want more support in place for the SATS - surely he is in a room on his own to help him concentrate not because it would disturb others. What other support is he having? extra time? a reader? a scribe? Again where is the Senco? What are they doing to support your son? If SATS are seriously stressing him I would be tempted to tell the school he is not doing them. Having dyslexia and a auditory delay causes enough problems without possible further diagnosis es.

I would ask the Senco or the school nurse be present every time he meets with the head in order to support my child.

I would seriously be considering another school but I guess he is going to secondary school in September is there a possibility of a specialist school if he is confirmed as having ADHD?

Don’t blame yourself the school should have picked upon his problems earlier.

On the other hand, if you treat a child with a sore leg with particular care in case it is fractured, you would simply be being sensible.

That is exactly what happened when my son injured his leg at rugby. He spent 2 weeks in plaster as they weren’t sure if it was broken or not but treating it as if it was broken was the sensible thing to do.

@GnotherGnu

You fail to see the issues with the analogy.

Immobilisation would stop the leg getting worse but wouldn't necessarily improve the situation. That is very different to the role of the school.

"Given that he obviously has a presentation consistent with ADHD, how could it conceivably harm him to use ADHD-type strategies?"

It might not harm him but it might not benefit him. Again, this is not the job of a school.

"And how would it help him to punish him as if he was nothing more than a badly behaved child"

How has he been punished? You mean not attending the school camp. It sounds like his attendance would be dangerous.

It might not harm him but it might not benefit him. Again, this is not the job of a school.

It is absolutely the job of a school to do their best to ensure each Child gets the most out of their time there. My DS benefited greatly from being given help in coping with his outbursts. Thank god his school wasn’t a hard line one that insisted on a formal diagnosis before offering a child help. They are rated outstanding.

Schools have a duty in law to use their best endeavours to meet special educational needs. Deciding to ignore the fact that a child is likely to have a diagnosis of ADHD and is presenting with a number of characteristic features would clearly not be complying with that duty.

Loving the fact that you assume that someone who sets out what the law says is a man, gameNight. Are our female brains too feeble for that task in your book?

Lol - I was at a SEN law conference on Tuesday. Three speakers were due to be barristers, and one was a solicitor - all were female!