DH didn’t stop when I said stop

[bijouhibou]

First time having sex after post childbirth vaginal surgery. All was well - better than expected - until very near his climax and I said stop because I was uncomfortable. He said he was going to come, carried on then came about 5 seconds later. I was in great pain and brought tears to my eyes. He was v supportive afterwards but those 5 secs were awful.

I know it’s physically difficult for men to stop when the floodgates open, so to speak, but AIBU re: those 5 seconds?

This is not rape as I understand it

Then you don't understand it.

It doesn't matter that she consented initially. Either partner has a right to withdraw thier consent at any time during sex. She withdrew her consent, very clearly, when she said "stop". He did not stop. He carried on having sex with her knowing that she did not want it anymore.

deloresclaiborne

What is your definition of rape?

I said stop because I was uncomfortable. He said he was going to come

The second part of this is what makes me think it was definitely rape. Like it was a negotiation and his 'I'm going to come' trumped your 'stop, it's hurting me'. Unbearable.

Christ alive.

This is depressing reading. It would have been bad enough were it not the first time since childbirth but I'm wincing for you op, remembering what it was like.

Having sex with someone who you know to be experiencing pain is all kinds of wrong, no matter how briefly and how lost you are in the moment.

Totally not ok.

Pengggwn he did stop, maybe not with the urgency the Op wanted, maybe it felt like 5 seconds or maybe he didn't realise she was in so much pain, who knows.......we weren't there to decide if it's rape or not.

Listening to the Op and giving her somewhere to talk things over freely without jumping in and telling her she's been raped would be more helpful to Op

The rape survivors on this thread agreeing with village, surely you realise that just because what happened to you occured in very different circumstances that doesn't mean the OP can't also have been raped?
When it happened to me at university it was nothing like OP's experience but the one glaring similarity was the absence of consent, the fact that she said stop and it carried on anyway.

Rape is sex in the absence of consent. Whether it's accompanied by physical violence or not, from a stranger or someone you know in your own home, even if it happens in the context of a previously loving relationship, if you say stop and they don't stop then they're having sex with you without your consent. That's rape.

You said no it hurts and he didn't immediately stop and ask if you were ok. He could have done some damage to the surgery site or anything but he just wanted to finish.
It's up to you whether you consider it to be rape or not. (it won't change the fact that it was unconsensual sex and that does have a four letter name beginning with R)
and it is up to you what you do about it. I personally couldn't trust him enough after this to have sex again.
Things like this would start the end of the relationship for me but if you talk and he promises not to do it again maybe that's enough for you.
Good luck OP enjoy your newborn.

Pfftlife

The OP clearly said it was five seconds. Why assume she can't count time?

The requirement is to stop as soon as you don't have a reasonable belief in consent. According to the OP, she said stop, he said he was going to come and carried on until he did. That is rape. Stop trying to twist the facts.

Hope your ok ok!

My ex did this to me made excuses and I felt bad for making a thing about it. Sadly it turned into him not listening more and more when it came to sex to the point I ended up being told that I wanted it and to stop playing hard to get even when I said I wasn't in the mood. I hope your dh isn't as much of a dick as my ex was but you need to make sure he knows this was rape and not ok.

Oh for crying out loud, I have never read such crap on MN as I have on this thread. All those saying it's not rape, your beloved, throes of passion you need to take a good hard long look at yourselves and the men you love. If he punched her in the face but was otherwise a good man and being accused of domestic violence would ruin his life is that OK? Takes less than five seconds to punch someone so it must be. Would it be OK for your beloved to do that?

he did stop, maybe not with the urgency the Op wanted

He stopped because he ejaculated, not because she wanted him to!

Pengggwn because of my point, we weren't there!

Has nobody else noticed that the Op hasn't come back. Maybe she's upset at being told so bluntly that she's been raped. You don't just tell someone 'you've been raped' and stick an emoji bunch of flowers on the end, jobs a good un. This is a serious thing and until the Op talks it through more I wouldn't be accusing anyone!

OP

I think the clear point here is that he heard you, acknowledged you (“I’m going to come”) and then chose his orgasm over your comfort.

It doesn’t really matter what label other people put on it. For you (and many many women) it was a line that was crossed and now only you can decide what to do now.

There are people (trained people who don’t judge) you can talk to about this. I hope you find better support

I agree it’s the definition of rape but i don’t think anyone believes the OP would use the word with her husband. I probably wouldn’t. The lack of care is troubling. As pp’s have said, if the shoe were on the other foot OP would have stopped immediately. My ex put his sex drive above everything else and I’m ashamed of myself for staying in that environment for so long.

@Pfftlife

Totally agree with you.

This thread makes me sad

Sorry op. This sounds awful. Hope you’re ok today.

All I would say is if my partner told me they were hurting during sex and wanted me to stop - there is no way I would ignore them and continue just so I could come. In fact how does someone actually come knowing they are hurting the person they love?

In fact how does someone actually come knowing they are hurting the person they love?

That's the crux.

I love you villageshop. People are expected to be perfect. He is only human. OP please talk to your husband and let him know the last 5 seconds really hurt.

I see a few things here which are interesting in terms of how we define and deal with rape.

1. An unwillingness to deal with the fact that rape happens within otherwise loving relationships, e.g. you love him and he loves you, so let's find a way to call what happened something else, even though no one would argue that a one night stand doing the same thing wasn't rape.
2. A sense that rape has to meet some arbitrary standard of suffering, e.g. if it only lasted 5 seconds and wasn't very violent, it wasn't rape.
3. A sense of accusation directed towards those who call a rape a rape, that they are 'crying wolf', rather than simply applying a definition.

It's awful, to be honest.

I can't believe the posters claiming this wasn't rape. "Stop" is a clear withdrawal of consent and OP's husband heard her say it. It was non-consensual penetration from that point on.

And can we please not get into comparing levels of violence and degradation between different incidents of rape? It's really not helpful and plays into the hands of sex criminals.

for everyone who's been the victim of sex crime.

People saying they have been raped and this wasn't rape...rape is about consent. The Op told him to stop having sex, removing the consent for sex to continue. He didn't.

It's funny that I imagine most of you agree that a man removing the condom secretly is rape as it is without consent. So how is actually continually penetrating her when she has said stop, not rape?!

Op I had a similar situation with my partner. It took a while to get over. It was a miscommunication and misunderstand. I 100% believe that. But it doesn't mean it didn't hurt and I didn't feel violated and awful. It's taken a while for us to move passed this, and do you know how he's done it? By making 100% everything about me, and asking every few minutes if everything is ok and if I'm enjoying it.

I know it probably sounds contradictory saying that it was rape but we moved passed it. Rape is penetration of our body without consent. And that means if someone says stop, and he doesn't, it's rape.

No. He said I'm going to come. In other words you wait. Disgusting behaviour. No means no.
This is exactly the circumstance continued consent is about. It could be cramp, fire, flood, a police raid, vomiting or a million other reasons, op trusted her husband, he knew she had a difficult birth and should have been attentive to her.
She didn't think no (& if she di that is sufficient) she was in pain. Some serious boundaries to discuss

Here on Mumsnet it often seems to me people live unrealistic lives and shout LTB, or rape, or abuse, at every given opportunity.

^This. I also agree with villageshop

Pfftlife

This is farcical. I don't need to have been there to say to a person, IF what you say happened, happened, it was X. I just need to read the definition of that crime and apply it to the facts. It's no different to someone coming on here and saying a stranger slapped them and me saying, 'That is assault'. Obviously I will add the caveat that if the person didn't slap them, or they were rehearsing for West Side Story, it wasn't assault, but otherwise, I don't need to have been present to refer to the legal implications of a set of facts.

It saddens me that you would try to put the responsibility for the OP's distress on people calling a crime by its name. What should we do instead? Say, well, actually, he is your husband and I'm sure he didn't mean any harm. Tell you what, why not give him a ten second rule? You say 'Stop penetrating me' and if he hasn't come after ten seconds, then expect him to respect you as a human being and stop treating you like a sex doll. But give the man a chance, eh?

There is no such thing as men being unable to stop orgasm. They can
stop it just like we females do. Have you ever had to stop your orgasm when is happening? You say one shit after another and instead of feeling that beautiful release you go flat in one second. It's not different for a man.

Your husband chose to continue his sexual pleasure instead of halting the action that was causing you pain, it's called marital rape. Too many men do not understand the concept of marital rape and why "stop" really means stop. Talk to him, communication about this now could solve serious problems in the future.