Why is Mumsnet allowing itself to be bullied by Shon Faye?

[Manyfridays]

Really sad that this site is going to allow itself amd women on here to be bullied and silenced. Most of all because the support here for abused women is some of the best on the net and now the actual site is allowing itself to essentially be abused and bullied into submission

People born female do not have privilege over men. Don't be so bloody ridiculous relief.

How do you know that self ID hasn't caused problems in those countries relief? I'd imagine it's a very tough thing to gather stats on and report on considering that the whole point of self ID is that someone is for all intents and purposes the gender they identify as. Somehow I don't think 'woman enters female changing room and makes other women feel uncomfortable' would really hit the headlines.

You can't compare self ID in Ireland to the self ID which is being proposed here either. Ireland still allows for some places/services to be single sex. Prisons for instance are still segregated by sex over there. So a man who identifies as a woman would still be sent to a male prison. This is not the case in the UK where several men have already been moved to female prisons because they identify as women.

Yes mip science is...well, science!

Wondering if its time to leave Mumsnet to be honest - no idea where I'll go (wanders internet homeless pulling up my judgy pants ) Have just seen on twitter one of the TRA's leading this has a porn site doing things to himself with office stationary. His voice is heard amd acknowledged but as somone who has been here almost since the start I feal silenced and to be honest shit upon.

Reliefofchaos did you miss this one then? www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault
I'm not surprised you didn't find anything when you googled though.

How do women have the privilege.
And if women and if transwomen are women then they do too.So

Posted to soon but really if transwomen say we are all women who has the privilege and what is it?
I'm now going to become a crone and will see if any transwomen claim that category of womanhood too.

Oh look what I've found on google (USA this time) www.lifesitenews.com/news/man-strips-in-front-of-girls-in-swimming-pool-locker-says-transgender-law-a
Now, tell me again how self ID doesn't cause problems for girls and women, Reliefofchaos.

Trans women are not men. They’re women. Saying otherwise IS transphobia

Bullshit. Trans women ARE men. I don't care how you want to wrap it up, a man can not change, genetically, into a woman.

Many years ago when I was in my early 20s, I was one of a rota of people who slept night shifts on the sofa of a local transsexual friend/neighbour of ours who lived on our estate, and who'd repeatedly been abused, had dog shit put through their letter box etc. In other words, I've earned my stripes as a trans ally. It doesn't make me less of an ally to recognise that transwomen are, and will always be biologically male. In fact failure to recognise and acknowledge the differences between women and transwomen means no-one's needs can ever be adequately named, researched, or addressed with effective policy responses. That is, both groups lose if some kind of subjective esoteric internal experience of 'gender identity' replaces biological reality in terms of how we understand man/male & woman/female.

I just wanted to say that I am hugely grateful for the level of debate on here, and for the women that are ensuring this situation doesn't become yet another erosion of women's rights. I don't have a lot to add but I'm concerned and I read with interest.

peanutbuttersquash thank you for such an insightful post.

I am absolutely gobsmacked that anyone could read Peanut's post at 08:58, completely ignore what she is saying and repeat "transwomen are women".

She has explained clearly that transwomen are transwomen and face a whole set of difficulties that women don't face, just as women face difficulties that transwomen don't face.

Ignoring that basic fact will help neither group.

Because having a different experience of being a woman doesn't make you not a women. I read peanut's post. I disagree with the conclusion.

So does Stonewall. So does the Women's Equality Party. So does the Labour Party, the Green Party and the SNP. All part of an MRA conspiracy perhaps?

I can't say that peanut is wrong in her views or her experience because I don't have the right to debate someone else's identity. Why do you think you do?

On the point about Canada.

nationalpost.com/opinion/bruce-pardy-meet-the-new-human-rights-where-you-are-forced-by-law-to-use-reasonable-pronouns-like-ze-and-zer

If people stop being able to talk about issues, it doesn't mean the issues disappear.

Okay then relief I'll bite. In what way are transwomen women?

The only thing women have in common is our biology. That's it.

The only sensible answer to that PDGTT, is your identity is yours and yours alone to decide.

That's nice but that still doesn't explain how transwomen are women.

Just because you identify as something doesn't mean you're magically going to become that thing.

Please provide an objective definition of woman pursuant to which transwomen are women.

Alternatively, please do not support laws predicated on the indefinable.

@ReliefofChaos
Because anybody has the right to debate anything. We call it freedom of thought and freedom of speech.

Because having a different experience of being a woman doesn't make you not a women

No.

Having a different experience whilst being a woman doesn't make you not a women

Do you see the difference?

Experience isn't what makes one a woman.
Tangible reality is.
3.7 billion people share bodily reproductive similarity. So we share a word for that.
And that's all there is to say about it.

There is no way to be a 4 sided triangle. There is nothing to be gained from redefining the word triangle to include shapes with four sides.

There is a great deal to be lost by telling adult human females that the very specific word that describes them has now been layered with abundant stereotypes and random individualities whilst denying them the right to reassert their boundaries around their own existence.

relief if the word "woman" is redefined to be an identity rather than biological classification, what word should be used to refer to adults of the sex that produces ova and gestates young? The removal of language to define this group is what leads to concerns that the distinct needs and challenges faced by this group will no longer be able to be described, monitored or addressed.

Wondering if its time to leave Mumsnet to be honest

I sincerely hope you don't leave, OP. That's just what they want, to take over Mumsnet by driving out the real users. Please stay!

From the number of unfamiliar usernames appearing, it seems that there is a campaign being waged to sign up, post goading statements about non-existent 'transphobia', and then report the posts of anyone who stands up to them.

I suspect MNHQ is suffering a deluge of complaints at the moment, and I trust they will not be diverted from their established policy of fairness.

Trans women are not men. They’re women. Saying otherwise IS transphobia

If that is the case, why can only men become transwomen?