Why is Mumsnet allowing itself to be bullied by Shon Faye?

[Manyfridays]

Really sad that this site is going to allow itself amd women on here to be bullied and silenced. Most of all because the support here for abused women is some of the best on the net and now the actual site is allowing itself to essentially be abused and bullied into submission

The language is strong because things have changed. It used to be that transexuals would use women's spaces without fanfare- there was a kind of honour system and preferred pronouns would be used out of politeness but nobody, including the transwomen themselves, believed that they were literally women. That is no longer good enough for the current crop of TRAs- you have to actually state that you believe men are women or be guilty of a hate crime. I never had any issue using preferred pronouns until I was told I had to believe a lie, and repeat the lie under threat.

Now when I see posters on here state the transwomen are women mantra I roll my eyes. Nobody really believes you can literally change sex and you aren't actually helping the transwomen who themselves acknowledge that to be the case.

They are too countless to mention and frankly I’m exhausted by having this argument on a lot of trans threads that I can’t be arsed to trail through and give you examples. I’m sure you’ll delight in having this as ‘proof’ that it doesn’t happen but frankly I don’t give a shit.

Well, I'd have thought you could at least find one of the 'countless' comments that supposedly amount to hate speech, but okay then.

Datalounge does get targetted, though maybe not by Shon Faye, and probably not on twitter. Threads on this subject get spammed a lot, but those posters have no problem telling people to fuck off. But MNHQ laid themselves open to this, by allowing namechanging, people to post immediately, inadequate security, no mods at night, allowing non members to interfere, etc etc.

Joytheunicorn Nope. Congratulations you win.

If trans women are women why does Lily Madigan only concern herself with trans issues? Don’t see her bothering her head with women’s issues. Which is rather odd seeing as Lily is a women’s officer.

At the NUS conference this week there was; mens toilets, disabled toilets but the womens toilets were re-designated to gender neutral. NO womens toilets at all. Yeah, it's a fair old world innit?

For those who don't know much about the GRA and Self ID, and don't know what the issues are, it's THIS;

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

,

Skarossinkplunger, read my post and explain to me how accepting the mantra "transwomen ar women" is not harming women in any way.

There is no way of saying "transwomen are women" and "transwomen can't access women's resources" - that makes no sense.

JaneyEJones I wasn’t referring to this thread, but Trans threads in general.

Maryz I’ve made no reference to a mantra?

I identify with women, not as one.

Well said Truscum

I stand alongside you as well.

Not sure what I've won, but if you can't even come up with one example in a 4 page thread that has appalled you because of the amount of hate speech, well, it's looking like a weak argument.
If that makes me a winner, well, I'm baffled, but I'll take it.

Don't really know anything about Shon Faye as I am not on the Twitter. I think I read something here to do with complaining to Captain Birdseye about the women here not shutting up and agreeing with TRAs. I imagine sullen teenage trans activitists all of the country sulking with their mums for making fish fingers for tea again. Not what you want after a hard day barricading women out of meetings and denying them a voice.

It's also a little difficult to defend purely from a logical point of view.

In order to be a transwoman you need to be male. If you're not male, you cannot be a transwoman. Therefore all transwomen are male.

Yet somehow this is hate speech.

@DJLippy how can you guess? 

Truscum - you're becoming more ninja by the day!

They don't care about name calling, they care about non compliant women saying no to them.

Indeed.

Slug

You can't argue with that.

Exactly Ova.
Women, shut up and behave.

The definition of hate speech and transphobia is odd and unclear. Recent reported examples include things along the following lines:

women don't have penises
women are adult human females
giving drugs with strong side effects to children is child abuse
forcing young girls to share sleeping/changing spaces with people with penises is a safeguarding issue
encouraging children to keep secrets from their parents is a safeguarding issue (I could give you loads of safeguarding examples)
before chopping off healthy body parts maybe we should persuade young adults to talk to a psychiatrist
don't tell boys they are girls just because they want to wear sparky heels
a person who rapes someone with their penis is not a woman and should not be in a women's prison

Are any of these speech?

Backingvocals so even though it wouldn’t affect you in any way at all you would still have a problem with it?

Yes because it's not the truth. Promoting untruths affects all of us. And actually I didn't say it wouldn't affect me in any other way. I said the untruthfulness element bothered me the most but I would also be deeply affected by an erosion of my right to be in women-only spaces when I choose. But yes, what I personally feel strongly about is the fact that it is simply not true.

I got deleted yesterday and I can only assume it was I referred to someone who is physically a man as 'he'.
The annoying thing was that I really tried not to use pronouns at all in my post and just slipped up once.

It's all a load of bollocks and at some point all this shit will have died a death.
if you were born with a penis you are not a woman . You will never be a woman.