Why is Mumsnet allowing itself to be bullied by Shon Faye?

[Manyfridays]

Really sad that this site is going to allow itself amd women on here to be bullied and silenced. Most of all because the support here for abused women is some of the best on the net and now the actual site is allowing itself to essentially be abused and bullied into submission

I understand people's concerns about some of the strong language on the feminist threads but this hasn't come from a place of bigotry. It's a reaction to threats like these.
terfisaslur.com/
Please take a look at some of these messages. THIS is hateful. Find me similar examples from angry mumsnetters and I'll happily eat my hat.

Trans women are trans women - I fully agree that they deserve fair treatment and respect but stating a biological fact is not transphobia.

When Shon Faye decides to take on all the male dominated forums that spout actual transphobia then maybe I will take them seriously. From where I'm standing this just looks like an attempt at silencing women. Nothing new and very male behaviour.

This. Also, When Shon Faye decides to take on all the male-dominated forums that spout hideous misogyny aimed at biological women. This won't happen, of course, because on most of the forums for or including transwomen, vile misogyny is rampant.

Saying a penis is not a female organ is not hate speech.

Saying that trans people can create their own spaces and services is not hate speech.

Not wanting men who self ID as women in women's spaces is not hate speech.

Trans women are not men. They’re women. Saying otherwise IS transphobia

Horse shit.

I apologise, I used to be able to answer this ridiculous statement with a titchy modicum of decorum and politeness.

But I’ve had enough, it’s a big steaming pile of bullshit, and I won’t call it otherwise. Maybe stating actual facts bluntly will help instead.

I no longer have a penis, I am still a man. I have a male body (ignoring cosmetic things which matter not one jot) and all the biological and societal advantages that that implies.

I identify with women, not as one.

Stop lying to yourself, you no sooner believe a person can change sex than I do.

I don't think anyone actually believes men become women - given it's impossible and all. That whole phrase about transwomen are women is just gaslighting and intended to derail, confuse, obfuscate.

Attempts to pin it down, ask in what way, try in any way to get to the essence of the statement are just playing into the game.

I've seen far more hate speech on Twitter from TRAs, funny how no-one's calling them out?
Reality and truth is not hate speech.

If transwomen are women then presumably that means any woman can be a transwoman. If not why not? What's the difference?

Genuine question. If you take away the bit about the GRA allowing trans women transwomen access to womens only resources would you still care about calling them women?

I'd rather be called a cunt than cis

Skarossinkplunger, do you have some examples of hate speech? If you do you should really report them.

My god DJ that is horrific. I couldn't keep reading.

@IHATEPeppaPig
LOVE this name, do you have young children by any chance?

Why is the term “cis” not a hate crime? I feel marginalised and mis-sexed as “other” by being called cis. Why don’t my views count?

Curious SF has not taken on places like Datalounge isn't it? Or is that because SF is a cowardly BULLY? MN is mainly women Datalounge is mainly men.

@Skarossinkplunger where is the hate speech? Talking about biology is not hateful. Examples, please.

If you take away the bit about the GRA allowing trans women transwomen access to womens only resources would you still care about calling them women?

For me yes. I actually care more about that than the access point. Because I find it hard to be forced to say things which are absolutely incorrect. I don't feel a need to play along with this entirely misleading terminology. I do like to be polite but not to the point of speaking untruths as a matter of course.

They are too countless to mention and frankly I’m exhausted by having this argument on a lot of trans threads that I can’t be arsed to trail through and give you examples. I’m sure you’ll delight in having this as ‘proof’ that it doesn’t happen but frankly I don’t give a shit.

And I do report it. Every. Single. Time.

Take this shit back to feminism chat.

What a nice first post!
I take it you don't like women discussing Trans issues on the most popular board . Why is that, then,...?

In what way are transwomen women?

Step up Munroe Bergdorf. Ta Da!! She is going to tell us all 'What makes a woman.' I shall be eternally grateful to this racist woman. Not.

twitter.com/C4Press/status/991715309492015104

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/loreal-paris-labour-party-transgender-munroe-bergdorf-dawn-butler-racist-charlottesville-a8230891.html

Bergdorf has since resigned from the position.

I think many women on the feminists threads would happily use preferred pro-nouns in person. The issue is that it shouldn't be bigotry if you don't want to. It's a respectful thing to do but should I be forced to call these people women? terfisaslur.com/ Respect is a two way street.

Watch this video. It's by a transexual and she talks about her own concerns with the expansion of transwomen to include anybody under the trans unbrealla (such as transvestites) If anyone can sign a piece of paper and become a woman what's to stop very bad men abusing this system? Men like those in above link. Would you want them in your changing room?

Ska, you don't need to trail through, just a few examples from this thread would do.

How can you take away the bit about transwomen and access to women's spaces?

The TRA stance is that transwomen are women, that any man who thinks he is/identifies as/wants to be a woman is one and that access to all women's spaces should be open to transwomen because they are women.

Once you accept transwomen are women, you have to accept that any man can demand to be housed in a women's prison, be allowed into a women's refuge, be included in women's support groups, win any women's sporting event; any boy can be allowed to sleep in a tent with girl guides on camp (without parents of the girls being told and without the girls being allowed to object), use the girl's showers in school, win the girl's races on sports day.

Once we are forced to accept "transwomen are women" there will be no such thing as a women- or girl-only space of any sort, ever.

It's not simply a matter of saying "let them say they are women, let's be kind, there's no harm in it".

Backingvocals so even though it wouldn’t affect you in any way at all you would still have a problem with it?