To think you're not allowed to be a feminist on MN if you believe in trans rights?

[EyeRollChampion]

Seems like every post in the feminism category atm is so vehemently anti-trans rights and that anyone who disagrees with this standpoint is ganged up on and ridiculed.

Or 'aren't I brave posting the same viewpoint as the overwhelming majority? I will not be silenced! (Now tell me how amazing and inspirational I am)'

I will probably be told I'm not a good feminist for believing we should respect the gender people identify with. Identity is of no importance to equal rights or mental health, of course. And they're a minority so who cares? Because changing room horror.

I'll get flamed for this because apparently this is not a view you're allowed to hold on mumsnet, TRA (aka anyone who isn't against trans rights) are the enemy of all women and trying to deny free speech.

Tell me I'm not alone?

"Hello all, man here. Am I welcome to talk". No, unfortunately he wasn't.

Meh, that may have been the title, but what he really said was "Hello, I'm a man, I cannot be arsed to read the threads that have already been posted and I require you to spend your time and effort to educate me as I'm too lazy to do it myself."

Anyone who tells women they aren’t oppressed is either thick and/or male. Or one of those cool girls who is secretly desperate for male approval.

@Mypronounsarepinkmacaron

Yes. Definitely. There's clearly no other explanation.

Never, ever question your opinions. That's the best way to go through life as a successful member of society. I bet you're highly intelligent and successful.

"'Punch a Nazi' isn't really a political option for me. "

Women do not have equal rights in societies where power depends on physical dominance.

Women depend on democracy and the legal system. I am talking about the reasons for female oppression. You seem to think that women are just naturally nice. I think many women don't have a choice.

"Women do not have equal rights in societies where power depends on physical dominance."

True.

Where are you from? Where do you live?

"Women depend on democracy and the legal system."

In the UK both are robust.

"You seem to think that women are just naturally nice. I think many women don't have a choice."

I wouldn't go that far. I've said that women are naturally a little less confrontational but not 'nice'. There's a reason that 'bitchy' is usually used for women.

Claiming that biology isn't bigotry is a well known Christian Right soundbite. If it walks etc.

Claiming the sky is blue is a well known Christian Right sound bite too!

I don't know whether you have to be thick to believe women aren't oppressed, but I'm not sure why you would call yourself a feminist if you believe women aren't oppressed. Is there a subset of feminists who talk about their lack of oppression?

"Everyone I don't like is Hitler". Stunning political analysis.

Maybe that's the reason for the ever decreasing numbers of men and women who call themselves feminists.

Lol @ "men who call themselves feminists" We don't need them to appropriate feminism for their own ends, we just need them to respect women as equals, call out sexism when they see it, acknowledge that as the a class they are advantaged by virtue of being male, and not shit over women's rights. Feminist allies - great. "Male feminists" not so much.

Where are you from? Where do you live?

In a country where my grandparents were adults before women could vote on equal terms with men. (We are still 10 years away from that anniversary).

In a country where some people do apparently think a punch is a good way to get a political point across.

I'd really rather we didn't go backwards.

There's a reason that 'bitchy' is usually used for women.

I'd love to know why some feminists support self ID, but I can't believe any feminist would agree with a statement like that, so unfortunately I don't think you will be able to enlighten me.

"Women depend on democracy and the legal system."
In the UK both are robust.

If our voices are heard. Which is why the petition calls for our voices to be heard:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

"Women depend on democracy and the legal system."
In the UK both are robust.

Actually, I diasgree. In a lot of western societies women have less of a voice than men in both democracy and the legal system. See all those examples of rape cases whereby the womans life is completely dismantled to dismiss the claims, the fact that a lot of cases never make it to court or even get reported. See claims of unfair dismissals because of pregnancies. See divorce cases whereby the men walk away and leave the wife to support the kids. If it is a man against a woman, chances are the men win.

Democracy, just look at the fact womans organisations are not being consulted on a massive change in the laws, no risk analysis is done, just a patronising pat on the head and be told to be nice. Just look at the fact austerity laws have a massive impact on women. Do you think if women had an equal voice in democrary this would be what they would choose?

The odds are never in our favour.

Yes, I agree that the law struggles to help women who have been raped, which is probably why so many are anxious to keep female only spaces. Nobody believes they are completely safe, just safer than the alternative.

Safer than a position where any male can access female spaces on his say so.

@sanluca I agree with you. That's why I said if our voices are heard. So often they are not.

But if someone is starting from the basic premise that they believe it's all hunky dory at the moment anyway because the law will do its job, then they should definitely be the people signing the petition...

Opressed?

How were any of you able to type that with a straight face?

If I were opressed I'd be doing absolutely anything possible to move myself and my children to safety. Instead of using the wonderful tool of the internet to whine about my "oppression" I'd probably be using it to sort my travel plans to get the fuck out of dodge.

Why aren't you?

Why aren't we what? Moving to somewhere that women aren't oppressed? Wheres that then?

Game night, I am pretty intelligent and successful thank you!

Maple, if you can’t even spell a word then I suggest you don’t enter into a discussion about it!

Women as a sex class are oppressed by men and the patriarchy. This manifests itself in everything from unequal pay, violence against women, rape culture, FGM, reproductive rights and lack of,child marriage, and now transactivism.

As I mentioned upthread though, some women are just a bit thick or desperate to be one of the boys so maintain that this isn’t the case.

I really don’t think ‘women are oppressed’ is a niche view in feminism.

Whether you agree or disagree with the existence of ‘all women shortlists’, or self ID, AWS exist because the Labour Party believes women suffer from oppression.

Whether or not you support Self ID, posting about women’s lack of oppression on the feminism boards is.... interesting.

If that is your bag, you might also be interested in starting a thread proposing dogs should be on leads at all times on the dog owner’s board.

Whether or not you support Self ID, posting about women’s lack of oppression on the feminism boards is.... interesting.

Indeed.

Game night, I am pretty intelligent and successful thank you

Me too sorry to disappoint certain posters!

Maple, if you can’t even spell a word then I suggest you don’t enter into a discussion about it!

So you've never made a spelling mistake? Well done. The sign of a fantastic education, I'm sure we'll all agree. Now, do oppressed people often get the opportunity for a good education?

Women as a sex class are oppressed by men and the patriarchy
So this "patriarchy." All through the thread (and often every fucking trans thread) There are posters whining about the removal of their "rights" If you were oppressed surely you wouldn't have any rights at All? Why would this "patriarchy" allow a woman to lead it? To be the head of state? The DPP? The most powerful police officer in the country? The home Secretary? Why would it allow you any say whatsoever?

This manifests itself in everything from unequal pay
So oppressed that there's laws to stop that?

violence against women
Humans are violent towards one another. Males are more likely to be assaulted. Unless you're facing state violence this is not evidence of oppression.

rape culture
Everyone in GB loves a rapist. That's why people are hounded from their homes and sex offenders are kept separate from others in prison for their safety. Another sign of oppression for sure.

FGM
Yep happens all the time in GB in 2018, or are you co-opting barbaric third world practices as a symbol of your own oppression?

reproductive rights and lack of
Free birth control, free morning after pill and free abortions? Fucking patriarchy

child marriage
Co-opting again.

and now transactivism
How is others fighting for their rights an indicator of your oppression?

Idon'tdowindows. "Hello,all. Man here. Am I welcome to talk" I posted that title to this thread to back up OP's posts about mn feminists. Your arrogant dismissive reply about this young man (who has a serious disability) was this, meh, that may have been the title, but what he really said was "Hello, I'm a man, I cannot be arsed to read the threads that have already been posted and I require you to spend your time and effort to educate me as I'm too lazy to do it myself. And this is a perfect example of what OP is talking about!