to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

'People are harsh...' 😂

My “D”H is like this. It has got to the point now where we are having marriage counciling and will probably divorce.

We were 21 when we moved in together and I thought he’d become more practical and helpful in time. He hasn’t. I don’t know if he is stupid or careless, not sure what is worse. It’s got to the point where I am so stressed out over it it has started to make me ill.

Despite him holding down a good job with a lot of responsibility he is unable to do basic household tasks, despite being told again and again how to do them. Eg washing up properly, sorting the recycling, mowing the grass. They all sound like such little things but it’s overhweming for me.

As PP said when you’re knee deep in nappies and baby sick, or when I was trying to establish BF and you have an incompetent fool just hindering rather than being capable of helping it all becomes too much.

if it helps put some perspective, my 8 year old can make a cup of tea - he watched me do it.
He also helps change his sheets
he just made himself a sandwich
he also knows if stuff doesn't go in the machine it doesn't get washed (although I will do the washing, he has spotted the link)
the 10 year old cooked bolognaise last night

your DH can do all this stuff!

Perhaps you could make him a little timetable/checklist to do the reminding part as I agree nagging isn't fun for you.

My DH is messy as hell but he doesn't pretend to be unable he just sees it as my job so

"Yes at least he is willing"

So there shouldn't be a problem then. Because his stuff is not difficult- if he's willing he'll do it. Sorted.

Jammy
If he is that clumsy and disorganised are you sure he doesn't have an issue like dyspraxia?

He is perfectly capable of learning how to do these tasks if he is clever enough to do the job he is doing.

At least he recognises his deficiencies! When we got married, a very long time ago, my OH had never bought an item of clothing for himself, he still won't go alone for clothes. When he was still smoking I watched a long piece of ash develop and his mother picked up an ashtray, apologised for disturbing him and tapped off the ash. When I was feeling grotty he said he would make a meal, I got spag sauce from the freezer, that I bulk cook, and told him to thaw it out and put some spaghetti on. Two and a half hours later...........
You'll be able to train him, he works very long hours as you say, how are you at DIY, cutting the grass etc., what a friend calls 'blue jobs', honestly.

he did not know how to send a birthday card? you had to hold his hand and supervise every step of it?

are you serious?

hahaha and you think this is 'starting as you mean to go on'

coco is right, he did see you coming

It's not his inability that would piss me off, it's the helplessness. It's 2018. He has how to videos for EVERYTHING on youtube, recipes at his fingertips.

I wouldn't mind too much about the cleaner, but he should be clearing up after himself day to day basis. Plates in the dishwasher, clothes in the basket etc. You shouldn't have to nag. If he's agreed that's how you both want to live, he needs to do it.

The birthday cards etc also needs to have natural consequences. So he doesn't send his DB a card? That's for him to deal with thr fallout, not you.

Ask him to read this:
www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-fray/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288.html

Then sit down, agree some responsibilities/house rules and enforce them.

Do not let this go. You will bitterly bitterly regret it.

people are harsh Its true. It's hard to be honest when talking about something personal and someone you love deeply, and hearing him dismissed by people, or commenting on our sex life. In the thread I have listened and taken onboard points, and also I am thinking about my own internalised misogyny, and quickness to blame MIL as previously discussed. I am admitting and realising my part in this. These unconscious prejudices are, I bet, something that affect most women, even those who seem to direct such annoyance and unkindness at me for facilitating his behaviour. We have all been shaped by this patriarchal system to some extent and I am grateful for the practical and supportive advice on how I can make sure it doesn't perpetuate in my household.

How do you ever think you will teach your children to manage household chores if you believe that some people are born with an innate inability to master such tasks?

If he needs to learn all the basics, then he needs to learn all the basics, how ever many times it takes to teach him and for him to 'get it' Knowing how to cook a few meals, make a hot drink. clean a bathroom, run a vacuum cleaner around, dust surfaces, deal with laundry and washing up and bins are basic life skills everyone should have. They hardly need a degree to master. Stop making excuses for him. He's not a baby.

Okay - so some people are better at some tasks than others and some people have preferences for some tasks over others. Why not sit down with a list of all that needs to be done in a week, and each choose from the list what you will be responsible for and agree how often and to what standard they will be done?

Otherwise, move out for a month and tell him he has to cope without you (and his mother) and then you will gladly marry him when he can prove he is an adult.

...because sitting there being patient while you go 'click on that box, now type "happy birthday DB love from Fuckwit McManBaby", now click 'done'' is one thing op but when your pfb baby is bawling its eyes out, going redder and redder in the face and becoming distressed while he fiffs and faffs about 'not noticing' which bit of velcro joins to which bit of the nappy, you will give up and do it yourself. which is, of course, his entire end game.

I wasn't being unkind or mean, merely pointing out the realities. I know you responded to KatInTheHat but I urge you to read her post, several times over. It's no way to live but if you disagree I can only wish you well and the very best of luck.

If he earns a lot of money, which hopefully he is with the amount of hours he's working, get a cleaner.
Who can be arsed cleaning if you can afford a cleaner.
The rest of it, you can teach him as you go along.
At first, give him jobs that are definitely his, like emptying the bins and putting the bins out on the right day.
Show him how to make an easy basic meal, say: Pan fried Sirloin Steak, mushrooms, New potatoes, and brocolli. That can be his signature dish and give him confidence, then build on it.
It's going to take time but at least he seems willing to learn.
As far as Diy, I think you've probably had it there if he's never been taught.
I've had three Dh's, not one of them any good at it.
Handyman services is your friend.

NoSquirrels helpful article, thanks

SilverySurfer again - with respect - you've overlooked my point. I have agreed it is no way to live and discussed steps to take towards change.

It's hard when I read posts like this because I married a man whose mum was like this. She did EVERYTHING in the house, waiting on husband and 3 sons day and night. They weren't allowed in the kitchen never mind taught to do anything in there. My DH went to university with no basic life skills and moved in with a similarly inclined bloke so they basically lived like pigs for 4 years. They 'reminisce' about the fact they didn't clean the toilet once. It sounded beyond grim.
When we got together he had never ever looked after himself properly but now, 10 years on he does way more than me in all areas of house stuff. We are going on holiday next week and he's got lists of what the kids need and is taking charge of all of it I'll just pack my stuff. He cooks most nights and regularly takes the kids for days out or even weekends away on his own.
My contribution to the creation of this awesome man? Nothing. I didn't teach him anything or tell him how to do stuff. I just never did it for him so he had to learn on his own. It helped that he recognised he should be doing these things and never expected me to do it for him. And I think that's the problem with alot of these men who claim they can't do these things because they weren't taught. It's bollocks. If they are intelligent professionals with good jobs they can do all of these stuff without constant direction they just don't want to

I would stop teaching and just stop doing it all yourself. If he doesn't step up it's because he can't be arsed

@jammy don't panic it's salvageable, and for people saying he doesn't want to clean, does anyone? He recognises his flaws and is willing to change, we have a cleaner, we can both clean. When i lived at home my dad would do the laundry, literally empty my laundry basket wash, dry and fold it up and put it on my bed. Can I do it, yes, if someone's doing it for me am I going to complain, no. I'm just not going to martyr myself to housework if i don't have to, but he needs to learn first as there are some bits cleaners don't do and you might not always be able to have one. The hairy bikers cook books are pretty good for newbie cooks.

HonkyWonkWoman great suggestions, thanks. Not sure if doing the bins is a bit of a stereotype though - think Theresa May. :-) But yes, good ideas

Re Having Kids

Did you have to teach him how to make babies too cos I bet his mum never did.

Face it, whilst he is 'learning' how to put a pillow case on he isn't doing it. He can have a little poodle about while you tell him what a clever boy he is, then bugger off to watch telly why you finish it all off.
Until his next learning session when you show him how to change a fitted sheet.
At this rate he should be able to manage a whole bed by next February. Then you can move on to how to carry a plate from the table to the sink.

I wasn’t born knowing how to cook pasta, or to operate a washing machine, or load the dishwasher, empty the hoover bag etc etc. I learned. So can he.

Don’t be like me and let it lie or it will become a real bone of contention in your relationship ... or worse.

Get the cleaner - not just to cover “his share” of the cleaning but to help you both. Unless you decide how you want to divide up household jobs then he needs to get into a routine ASAP of awareness of what needs to be done and actually doing it - and definitely before you have children. Easy for me to say - several years and children down the line when both DH and I are constantly knackered working FT and tend to let household jobs pile up until one or other of us has the energy to attack them (or indeed one of the DCs does it). My DH works longer hours than me at the moment but still cooks (more than me) and puts the laundry on (less than me) and sorts the dishwasher out if it needs doing (more than me). Not so great about cleaning bathrooms, changing sheets etc (I do more of that) but does it if asked. It’s many years since he uttered the immortal expression “I’ve put the washing on FOR YOU” and expected praise (wtf!)

What on earth does he do for a living? You’ve described somebody who can barely function let alone hold down a skilled job requiring ridiculous hours. Tread very very carefully or you will soon become housekeeper nanny and PA supporting his well paying job where he never has to think for himself.

"At first, give him jobs that are definitely his, like emptying the bins and putting the bins out on the right day.
Show him how to make an easy basic meal, say: Pan fried Sirloin Steak, mushrooms, New potatoes, and brocolli. That can be his signature dish and give him confidence, then build on it.
It's going to take time but at least he seems willing to learn"

Jesus fucking wept. It's as if feminism never happened.