to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

I'm not of the opinion that all tasks have to be done equally by both partners. You may find it easier if you each have your own tasks so that he knows what is his responsibility. This may end up being done on traditional lines, but so what if it works for you. Eg you do the cooking he does the washing up. It's ok to teach him a few things, but try and avoid being his manager. Also give him the space to develop his own way of doing tasks that he is responsible for so that not everything has to be done your way.

If you lower your standards of cleanliness then he might be trainable.

Saying that I have a friend with a similar husband. She is happy doing housework, and looking after the children. I don't think it's worth walking away from.

She is one of a kind and loves baking and keeping house. All she has ever wanted is to be a stay at home mum, which she has achieved.

Look at all the terrible threads of women here saying they have a young baby, a toddler, a useless husband and they do all the work on no sleep. Or a house with three teenagers who will not even pick up their own socks because thier Dad never does. And people always wonder "how did it get so bad? Did she not notice this before they had kids together?" Well you noticed, now act on it.

Look up the term "mental load". It gets MUCH WORSE when you have children.

You learned, somehow, to notice that dishes or laundry need doing. He can learn too. Don't tell me someone who can hold down a job is incapable of pairing socks.

And please don't have children woth him until he becomes an adult.

You are going to have a very hard life with this man. You ARE going to end up doing everything if you have children because he will bumble around and "not know what to do". Like he does now with tasks my sons have been doing since they could read.

This is not ok.

It's not turning into your mother in law you should be worried about - it's turning into an unpaid domestic servant. It's all very well to just leave things when it only affects you and him, but when it affects a child it cannot be left.

His job to put the bin out but he' "forgot" and now the bin is overflowing and crawling with maggots? Who's putting that out then? YOU.

Baby awake in the middle of the night? "Babe I'm so sorry, I just DO NOT hear her, you have to wake me up if she cries" (he will never, ever hear her. He will also be unwakeable).

Baby crying? "I don't know what she wants, she wants YOU. She needs YOU. YOU work out what she wants and then YOU tell me what to do, and I'll do it" (he won't. He 'won't understand' how. Or he will not know when. Or he'll forget. Or have a work email he needs to answer. or simply won't come home until midnight because babies are hard and thankless and he doesn't find his paid job to be so)

Imagine having a baby with a fuckwit who refuses to work out that pasta needs water. How would he make her food or any formula? He'd poison her. (Or he'd carefully nearly poison her, so you don't get any ideas about making him do Lady Things again)

Anyone with any drive to not use someone else as a servant will learnt o do things themselves. He has failed to do so. Worry less about how to teach him and more about why he appears to have a learning disability whilst holding down an important job.

A big problem with dividing and agreeing the tasks is that he’s still ‘not seeing’ what needs to be done.

So, if you have work done on the house that makes a big mess, he doesn’t realise/see this as it’s not on ‘his list’ / he’s never had ‘instructions’ for that particular task.

If you have DC, he doesn’t ‘see’ they need new shoes/a winter coat/to go to the dentist/you’ve ran out of nappies,etc,etc. Everyday things that crop up and you’ll have to be constantly telling him to do them - that’s the exhausting part and what ends up building resentment in many relationships. If you both ‘see’ what needs to be done and do it as and when, you’ll be far happier long term.

dsil is a bit like this, arrived at adulthood with very few housework/gardening/diy/cooking skills, somehow. Probably cos he grew up with busy working parents who employed a housekeeper, and went to uni in catered halls.

As he loves dd (who is, to be fair, a neurotic perfectionist clean freak) very much and wants to become a be a fully functioning grown up with a successful marriage and a nice home he has learnt fast. And has acquired cookbooks and a diy manual/ set of tools/gardening magazines plus asking people how to do things.
He is now reading babycare manuals and which best-buy pram guides, and decorating the house under dd's close supervision.

I don't suppose he goes all helpless when he doesn't have the necessary skills at work, why on earth should he do it at home?

MsJudgemental I've already explained this in this thread. He is on a promotion track and will change hours within a year

lifetothefull helpful advice, thanks. Yes I think we will work this out when we sit down together

I started my dating life in 1970. I have never had a BF/DP or DH who hasn't known how to clean and cook. If they weren't taught at home - they learned themselves. To read these type of threads in 2018 is mind blowing.

When we got married my DH and I were probably as hopelessly in domestic as each other but since I minded not having good food I learnt to cook and I hate mess and dirt and so I do all the cleaning. Don’t get your hopes up about changing him. It has to come from him. I feel enormous resentment about the amount of sheer drudgery that marriage and children have brought me. And it’s because my DH was brought up not to do all this stuff and hasn’t changed. If you can afford a cleaner and some domestic help then I recommend you just plan that into your lives together.

He is on a promotion track and will change hours within a year

Sorry again to be a voice of doom - but if he has a high powered corporate job (well to be honest really any job) I very much doubt he will work less after a promotion for more pay. Not the way the world works. There will be presumably more responsibly in the promoted job - and then another promotion after that.

In the old days it did used to work like that in some places back in the day - e.g. law firm partners doing less. But not the world now.

colditz again, all discussed previously. Fuckwit not helpful or supportive.

I think you need to lower your standards just a bit eg, you said about not leaving a plate on the side and he wouldn't bother.

I would tackle a whole room together instructing him on how to do things, get him to take note as you won't be telling him again.
Then tackle laundry, from start to finish, and carry on until he knows how to do everything.

As for him not knowing when things need doing, he'll work it out when you have no food in the house, clean clothes, and mess all over the place.

aaarrrggghhhh Not in this instance. He will have weekends back and finish at 6 with occasional travel.

He is deliberately incompetent and you are being a mug. Sorry to be so harsh.

Thanks gilly

If he can hold down a job, he can learn basic tasks that an average seven year old is capable of. If he had to learn a new task at work, he would bloody well get on with it, he is equally capable of learning domestic skills. But he is choosing to be actively helpless.

Food packets have cooking instructions on. Electrical appliances have manuals. He needs to get a fucking grip and be an adult.

Well that's great! Genuinely. The problem will be resolved because he can use that time to be responsible around the house.

So then you will have your answer of whether this is just because he's stressed/doesnt have a time or if he really is simply refusing to learn and take on the responsibility.

Please update the thread then!

Several things spring to mind...

1. yes you have a choice - you always have a choice
2. you have been living together under a year and already his inability to tend a house is sufficiently irritating that you have posted for potential solutions from a bunch of strangers. His inability may seem charming now, but in 2 years, 8 years, maybe not so charming.
3. how can a man (or any human adult) with a job, not have the wherewithal to make a cup of tea. Bet you teaching him to make one, had the lads in fits at work or down the pub.
4. he has no respect for you now and you're not out of the honeymoon phase yet
5. part of the reason for living together prior to marriage is to check you are compatible as a couple. I respectfully suggest you are not compatible and you need to tell him this in clear and unambiguous language. You most certainly have a choice and so does your DP - he has the choice to step up to the plate, assume the full responsibilities of adulthood and hang on to the woman he claims to love. Push it back to him - you want to keep me, prove it!

Op

This is going to drive you insane. INSANE

I have one of these men. Luckily he has stuff he is vg at, or where he steps up so
I get over it. But your partner sounds completely deliberately lacking and worse unavailable.

If you insist on proceeding you need to figure how you are going to manage all of this yourself ina way that is not toxic to your relationship. Cause you know what you are walking into (so did I tbh)! Because he will not change and he’s not going to do it.

I’d say yes he should pay for a cleaner. In fact if he can afford it I’d accustom him to getting one twice a week. Plus sending out the laundry. You will need to farm out as much as you can and getting him on board with it now will help. Tell him he is buying what he “cannot” do.

FGS Find some things he is inclined to do and give him full responsibility for those. The bills. Booking holidays. Cooking. Once the kids come, anything anything he takes on will be a relief.

good luck!

I do think you need to get a bit tough, for all the reasons others have suggested.
He doesn't sound like a bad man, but you don't want to become a doormat, full of resentment.
My dh has higher standards than me, but he doesn't pull socks out to dry them, and I hate them all bunched up I cope with the scrunched socks, and he goes over some things I've done.
I'm sure this is normal with most couples and there's more to life than being a clone of your other half, swings and roundabouts etc.

Some men will get into the habit of being useless for an easy lazy life, but your dp doesn't sound like this at all.
Have a good chat with him and tell him that he needs to look at all the jobs as his responsibility, even if he asks you to do half of them. He will have to think what needs doing and when and he'll probably understand why you are suggesting this if it has the desired effect.

My m’n’law did everything for her sons - she was still ironing and cooking for her youngest at 32 until he moved in with his girlfriend.
My hubby is not very house practical - but either at I - and I’m a sahm. But my hubby doesn’t expect me to do household chores either (which we both agree I’m very bad at), so we have a lovely cleaner who is amazing.

Leaving a plate on the side for a while is only fine if you are genuinely going to get to it.

My DH would leave his plate or glass on the side and he say would get to it later but they would still be there the next day. I just let all his dirty dishes pile up. Once he knew they would always stay in a pile for him to wash, he stopped putting them on the side.

Okay, I am signing off now. I would like to say thanks for the genuinely productive and supportive advice. As discussed previously, I have listened and come to some helpful realisations.

1. It is not acceptable. I am going to tackle this by speaking with him and together planning how to move forward practically
2. I will communicate how the lack of proactivity makes me feel / could make me feel in the future and impact on our marriage
3. I am not so quick to blame MIL - even though her approach was wrong imo it is also just as much his DF and above all DP's responsibility as an adult with his own choices. I will also continue to try to be mindful of my internalised misogyny and expectations of myself
4. To take a cleaner if we decide to but not as a replacement to DP's fair share and equal responsibility
5. I will not be breaking off my engagement
6. I feel confident we will make progress as DP is willing and our relationship is otherwise v strong.

I don't believe I am a "mug" as some pp has said. I am trying to be mindful and aware of this issue hence seeking advice.

As this is the only issue we have I look forward to fixing this and having a 100% perfect relationship like some of the other angry pp's evidently do! ;-)

Thank you again, kind helpful people. X

"And it’s because my DH was brought up not to do all this stuff and hasn’t changed. "
It is nothing to do with that. There are loads of things I wasn't brought up to do that I manage perfectly well- Sky TV, mobile phones, the Internet and duvets to name but 4. My mother didn't teach me to play the penny whistle. Or drive a car. Or speak French. You don't hear people saying that they can't check the oil in their car or put on their eye make up because their mum didn't teach them. It's only ever cooking and housework.