To disagree with nursery potty training ds

[Soubriquet]

Ds was 3 at the beginning of march and has been attending this nursery since he was 2.

It's a fantastic nursery and I've never had any problems with it.

However yesterday, they sent home a note asking for pants and spare trousers as they were going to start potty training Ds.

I don't want them to potty train him. I was waiting until the summer holidays like I did dd as it was so much easier when she could walk around with no clothes on, she understood better and was trained in 3 days. She was 3.4 years when I did it with her

I suspect they want him to move up to the next group and they require them to be potty trained in that group. Something that was never mentioned when I joined him there.

Would you speak to the nursery and request they don't do it?

My biggest problem is that Ds seems to be immature for 3. He has only recently started to speak in full sentences and even the struggle to understand him is difficult. I honestly don't believe he will understand it just yet.

They've over stepped the mark here. Just say no, you'll be sticking to your original plan.

It's soul destroying trying to teach them before they're ready anyway. DS is NY, met all his milestones early. We started 'training' at 2 and a half. He didn't fully get the hang of it until 3 and a half. We should have waited.

I'm not sure what the harm is in a preschool.child not being potty trained by age 3

Will no one think of the environment?
I could cry when I hear of disposable nappies being changed at nurseries 8 times a day. Even if they don't need it. Aargh

Firstly, I would suggest that before you tell the nursery your son isn't ready, you ask them why they think he is. Perhaps he's showing signs of wanting to be toilet trained there even if he isn't at home. They're different environments so he may behave differently in them.

It is interesting that potty training happens so much later these days. 3 may be reasonably normal these days, but it never used to be. Even 10 years ago, my children were relatively late at 2.5 although they were both dry at night as soon as they were dry in the day.

I'd tell them you don't want them to start potty-training. I know posters are saying it won't do any harm but actually I think pushing a child who isn't ready can sometimes cause harm.
He could get upset and then you're having to overcome that. Instead of starting from a good place, you're dealing with a DC whose first experience of potty training was negative and upsetting.

I potty trained my son the summer before he started preschool, he was 3 and 2 months. It took about a week because he was ready for it.

Pressed 'post' too soon!

I would tell nursery to wait if it was me.

Will no one think of the environment?

This!

It would be interesting to know if there are many/any children in washable nappies that aren't potty-trained by 3. I wonder whether the magical properties of disposables as lauded in all the adverts (where your precious baby's skin is still dry after a full 12-hours of unbroken sleep) are to blame.

Absolutely cracking up laughing at some of you. The outrage that a 3yr old isn’t potty/ toilet trained is hilarious. Has nobody taught you that kids develop at different rates?

My ds5 is like a little mathematician- but behind with written words or numbers. See? Developing at different rates.
Incidentally, I toilet trained him before he went up a class in nursery- so to the 3-4 room. He was 3 and a few months. Before that, he simply wasn’t ready. I’d tried before, I also had potties around and he was in nursery from age 2. He saw kids using the toilet. He wasn’t ready.
Shall I say it again? he wasn’t ready

Op if I were you I’d be telling the nursery that they seem to mistakenly think they get to decide when your child is toilet trained, and this is not the case. Your child isn’t ready. It’s really that simple.

Why would anyone want to go through weeks and weeks of wet clothes rather than just wait till a child is ready and do it in a day?

We didn't have a single accident with DD because toilet training is NOT something you need to practise to get right, its something you just do when you are ready.

A lot of harm has been caused by trying to force children who aren't ready to engage.

If a child needs to be toilet trained for school then make sure its done by the time they start school. Why in the world are people advising the OP starts now a full 18 months before the child 'needs' to be ready?

op I would ask why the nursery think its a good time. If he has been showing an interest then fine, follow up. If its to fit to some bullshit timescale of their own then tell them no.

I have always been told that schools are NOT allowed to refuse places on the basis of not being toilet trained.

As an EYFS teacher in schools for 12 years this has always been the case. Yes, it's difficult to manage ratios etc but it's down to the setting to provide the right environment/facilities to cater for this need. All schools I have worked in have had dedicated changing areas immediately adjacent to the classroom (eg children's toilets are linked to the classroom). This means that the child can be changed appropriately but the staff member is still counted in ratios etc. It's not rocket science.

Ah, I missed that it was to me @Forkit. My setting is NHS based not education so children with needs presenting like your daughter would be on a different pathway (to getting a diagnosis and more apropriate support) not excluded from any support.

Children with additional needs should never be excluded. I have argued with schools trying to wriggle out of their duties in that front.

But increasingly more and more children who are developmentally ready are being kept in nappies.

I think this only makes it harder for those who have genuine needs.

Schools cannot refuse to take an unpotty trained child. Even if they don't have a diagnosis, you can't say that they don't have SNs or a medical problem, because so many are diagnosed later on.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a fair few children that started school in nappies or having accidents so frequently (daily at least) that they couldn't be considered 'toilet trained'.

Of those, 2 had some sort of developmental delay, and one a medical problem that was diagnosed before they went to school.

The rest came to school with no diagnosis. One was diagnosed with a medical problem in the juniors, the right medication almost stopped the wetting. Then there are the children who were diagnosed with an ASD much later on.

I can only think of 1 child with toileting difficulties who did not later receive a diagnosis that explained their difficulties.

I have to say I am astonished at the number of parents with children with no developmental delays who believe it's OK for a three year old child to still not be potty trained

I agree with you.
The age children are potty trained seems to be getting older and older.
It's the same with children who can't dress themselves or brush their teeth or wash by school age. It's not they can't, it's mostly they don't have to.
I think a lot of parents would rather just do everything for a child rather than have the patience to let them try for themselves.

Achieving continence is a developmental stage, and unrelated to speech.

Children will achieve this at differing ages, just like walking, but generally speaking most children (disabilities excepted) will be continent in the day by about 3.5.

Parents and care staff can PROMOTE continence, such as asking if they need the loo/potty, helping with clothing, facilitating moving to the loo/potty but they can't actually help the child achieve continence as it's a physical process.

Generally a child is ready to be toilet/potty trained (I hate that word) when they know they're about to do a wee or poo, not once they've already done one, though that is a step along the way.

Nursery should be facilitating him using the toilet, in asking if he needs the loo/potty, helping him communicate that need, assisting with moving, clothing, wiping etc.

Pull ups can be a tricky one as they keep the child so dry they don't necessarily know when they've weed, which doesn't reinforce the brain/bladder message of having a full bladder and then feeling wet. Any serious attempts at promoting continence should involve losing the pull-ups and wearing pants!

I don't see any harm in nursery asking you to send in pants, wipes etc OP, so that if your DS wants to use the loo like the other kids he can have his pull-up removed and try.

It's one thing to wait until the child appears 100% ready and another to actively forbid another care provider from facilitating the process. You may want to be more open minded about the process and encourage their involvement. Maybe ask for a meeting so you can discuss how they plan to facilitate continence?

I would just tell the nursery you have plans to do it this summer when you think he's more ready and you will let them know when you're doing it.

PermanentlyExhausted do you think washables have magical properties that cure disability?

Reading this thread has made me feel awful. DS is 3 in August and he isn't potty trained yet, I knew he wasn't ready last time I tried.

He has no delays etc but is currently going through a phase of being terrified of getting in the bath and terrified of sitting on the toilet, I wouldn't dream of pushing him into domy it whilst he's like this

Nursery are fantastic and havnt pushed me and have told me they will follow my lead and do what they can to make it as close as possible,when the time comes at nursery, to do it like we do at home

A couple of children in his class have currently started and one is getting on great and the other not so much, me and his mother were chatting to one of the staff a week ago and she was really struggling.

I don't see why you would push your child if they are not ready, whether delays or not? Everybody has their own speeds of doing things.
I also know there's a difference between not being ready and a child testing the waters with not wanting to but why should any child be pushed?

I am not lazy and potty training is something that I have already felt awful for not having accomplished yet, I don't just have nursery I also have his dad, who also has to find the right balance and routine

Hate the thought some posters will make mum's feel like shit and scared for something their child isn't ready for

As for you OP, I'd personally welcome help from nursery but not if i was basically forced into them doing it. I completely understand your side, and i'd want to know why from them and then let them know it's something you don't feel comfortable with

PermanentlyExhausted do you think washables have magical properties that cure disability?

Huh? Of course washable nappies don't cure disabilities! Why on earth would you think they might?????

Haha reading some more comments and feeling judged... I can honestly say I DO have the patience with my son thank you,but thanks to all of you who would class me as lazy and preferring to do everything for my child than letting him go at his own pace and supporting him and praising him all the way

PermanentlyExhausted you seemed to think all children in washables will be toilet trained by the age of 3.

Spikeyball No I was wondering whether there were many who weren't, and whether not feeling wet, because disposable keep the skin dry, was related. I didn't say I thought washables-wearing children would all be dry by 3. I think you've misunderstood me.

It's very easy to judge if all.your children happened to be ready by 2 years. Once my son was ready to be potty trained he just went for it. It was pretty much out of my control.

If you think he's not ready then that's all that matters - tell them you intend to try in the summer hols and you'll be holding off until then.

Don't let language delay alone make you think he's not ready though. My ds1 was/is very language delayed but managed potty training really well at 2.7.

gottagetmoving gaining continence is like gaining the ability to roll over. I bet you haven't ever accused parents of being lazy for not teaching their child roll over sooner have you? So why think that way about continence?

BTW your comment on teeth brushing also betrays massive ignorance as the advice from the NHS is that parents should be involved in that until age 8-10, so well past school starting age.

Maybe in future you could avoid spouting your misinformed drivel all over the place.

I think I'll ask at collection tonight why they feel he is ready for potty training.

If I agree with what they are saying, I will continue to support at home. If I don't, i will tell them I would prefer they didn't and I was waiting for summer.