Not allowing my daughters to attend a wedding

[BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil]

This might be long but I will try to keep it as short as I can.

My ex's sister is getting married in June. I am also supposed to attend a wedding where my DP is the best man on the same day.

This day is one that falls on a day of my access.

Ex and I have a long history with going to court for access. Ex is egocentric and rather than thinking about what is best for the children's stability always puts his own wants and needs before theirs in terms of access (got drunk/hungover a lot and didnt turn up- cue me getting a court order, changes shifts to suit his lifestyle and expects me to change both the children's life and mine to suit his).

His last shift change was a year ago and the court order no longer suited him and he turns up to avail of access as and when he wants. If theres a racing festival on, or a friend's birthday or the opening of an envelope, he will say he cant collect the kids at the allotted time.

I have acted over the past three years under legal advice because he is such a tool, that if he is not there to collect the children (notwithstanding traffic delays, legitimate reasons) that I do not have to allow him to take them.

He has been told by a judge to stop complaining and that he works around the children: the children dont work around him. He has ignored this.

I am truly sick of being treated like a doormat. Last week, he let me know with 1.5hrs before he was supposed to collect the children from school that he wouldnt be there and I must go. He has a conviction from ignoring a court order to stop harassing me.

I stick to my court order as if I give him an inch he takes a mile. Then some more.

He and his sister arranged our daughters to be flower girls at her wedding. She has bought them dresses. No one ever asked me or even bothered to tell me the date. As I knew this was my day with the kids, I went ahead and made my own plans to go to my BIL's wedding.

I only found out the date of his sister's wedding because I know someone in the hotel it's happening in. The assumption has been all along that I would just give in and say yes.

Ive had everything from him from 'youre a cow/bitch/cunt/insert other word here' to 'thats her godmother/what do you think the girls would choose' to his sister saying that she thinks my approach to his access is 'inhumane' and accusing me of not turning up to court to remedy access (there was no court date, apparently he went to get application papers that I do not need to be there for and had no knowledge of).

She has said how devasatated she is, and why would I prioritise this wedding over hers: a) I didnt know when it was; b) no one told me of these plans.

I have sent Ex future access proposals, have always been reasonable (I may not like the bugger, but the kids love him and I have always facillitated as much of equal weekend access as I can because of this.) but he hasnt moved his backside to change the access order he claims is soooooo unfair to him. Hes had fifteen months to do this, and all I get is a weekly threat to 'take me back to court'.

He can do it! I even told him which form to get, how to fill it out and explained it to him.

I am just sick to my back teeth of being treated like a doormat. He slots the children in around his life, I get treated like a babysitter and my life and anything I want to do is ignored. Im still having this wanker control my life nearly six years after splitting up, because he knows that anytime he chooses not to step up, I will rush in and save the day because I wont let the children down.

There's a long DV history to this, so I am trying not to be resentful or a bitch because of that. I want what is best for the kids, which is exactly why I got a court order in the first place: stability and continuity.

I am just wondering whether IABU.

I can see both sides, I dont want to hurt his sister, but I want to stand up for myself as well.

(That was not short. Apologies.)

@Italiangreyhound do you have any resources that I could look at to find the right way to tell them? Its a conversation I know we will have to have, but I dont want to do it in the wrong way.

My friend moved twice in between ex doing what he did and her being at her current house. She's looked high and low. It has to be somewhere.

I hope she finds it one day. Its the proof that Im not the psycho cow his family have labelled me as. You cant argue with fingerprints around someone's neck. Only time he stopped. Thought hed killed me.

Good that you have excellent local Gards.

As far as SIL is concerned, that's exactly what I suspected. He's been telling lies to her claiming it's all organised for months. Sadly, any resolution to her feelings about that is between her and The Idiot.

As MN has it 'Not your circus. Not your monkeys.' Oh to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. Like PP have suggested, I agree it might be time for an age appropriate conversation about why you split up.

Keep on keeping on, you're doing great.

Credit to you OP... for standing up and defending the best interests of your kids

I feel sorry for the SIL as I hope I am never a brother like that. Pleased to see as you still have police that attend, they support you if needed (here in London given the cuts instigated by Boris Johnson when Mayor, no chance they would come).

YANBU at all.

@BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil I am afraid I do not know but I would probably invest in a one off session with a councellor who specialises in this type of thing. Women's Aid may be able to help. You may well need to pay.

The reasoning with adopted children who have witnessed violence or been victims of it when young, or even pre-verbal is that, on some level, they do know what has happened. They will have heard noises or seen sights and not been able to work out what was going on, perhaps, in a conscious way, but they will be aware.

Talking about it simply will enable them to ask questions or maybe to say for the first time, I do remember hearing shouting or seeing you upset or whatever. Although they may have said this before.

If it were me I would probably try and say it in a very ordinary way when doing ordinary things. I wouldn't sit down and make a big thing of it or they will expect that every time you sit sown together something may come out.

I might use something on TV like an argument in a TV programme or something and say something like "When we lived with Daddy he was very angry sometimes and treated me in a very bad way."

I would be gentle in the words I used, you don't want to shock, just explain. You can give context, 'Daddy was very angry and he could not control his anger, I did lots of things to be kind but Daddy could only see the problems that he felt in his work or whatever. Never, ever suggest it is your fault, or that you were part of the problem. You may also want to give examples of what you got things wrong in other contexts and how you handled it. I shouted at my college today and I had to say sorry etc. I'd talk about these at different times. So you are modelling how to handle angry feeling at some points and telling them how their dad behaved at other times, not jumbling it all up so it looks like he was bad and you are good, even if that is the case (which I really feel it is!)

BUT I really would take advice on how to do this. And not take my word for anything at all. I am not a professional and I make lots of mistakes in my own life!

I found that when you talk about a little of it, they digest that and come back with a question. So in my case it was did Daddy hit you. And I said no but he hurt me physically in other ways. The example I gave was he physically stopped me from leaving the house with DD1 when v pregnant with DD2. From that day on I always kept a bag packed in the car so I could just leave if I needed to.

So the first bit gradually led to the next bit. And so on. But it happened in digestible bits and pieces. Often in the morning on the school run. I expect the no-eye contact car situation is helpful.

Otherwise when I was in the bath.

So you could start with a "Do you remember when......" and see where it takes you.

I have only really learnt to recognize most of the abuse since I was on MN. I still have trouble with accepting my exh raped/sodomized me. I went for a MRI recently to check rectal function and ended up totally falling to pieces that evening. My DDs (12&13) sat with me in turn to check I was ok - something that they shouldn't have needed to do and I couldn't bring myself to really explain why I was traumatized. But do you know I'm so proud of the way they handled it/me. Way better than most adults could have done.

@Italiangreyhound now that you have suggested this, it makes very much sense. There is a women's refuge who I have attended for counselling before and they would be an excellent first port of call.

I grew up with DV. I basically emulated my parents relationship. I chose to stop this by leaving The Idiot. Im terrified they might copy me.

I want to stop this cycle .Thankyou so much.

@Wallywobbles you poor thing, I am so bloody sad and heartbroken for you at this point. I actually dont know what to say.

Obviously your kids are amazing- You're amazing too.

What a twat.

op, any word yet on how SIL has managed to rig three children out for flowegirl duty without them having to try clothes on. Just how has she managed to keep it all from the girls?

@TeisanLap not a flaming word. Just angsty texts from The Idiot.

It's your mandated access day. I would stand your ground. As you say, give him an inch and he takes 10 miles, so I think giving in would be sending the wrong message. I guess he will be vindictive and tell your daughters that they would've been flower girls, but they'll realise one day what a self absorbed git he is.

OP, what do you think about making the phone number the Idiot uses to contact you for that sole use (an Idiot Hotline! 😉). And get a new phone and phone number for everything else. That way, you can choose when to engage with him.

Just read the whole thread and I wanted to say I think you are an amazing woman/mum. There is no question in my mind that you are absolutely doing the right thing by not letting them go to your exSIL's wedding (flower girls my arse). I agree with pps' comments about not giving this any more headspace and using the grey rock approach to his texts etc. Don't engage with him - it is pointless, you cannot reason with stupid. V.V good luck with your exams - it is wonderful to think that you will be able to help women who have suffered as you have. Hope you, your DP & your girls have a wonderful time at the wedding in June.

It's your access day, take your kids to a lovely family wedding and send them to their dad's on his access day.
Don't overcomplicate it.

OP

Having just read everything that he has done and his family's attitude and behaviour, as well as the heavy drinking likely to take place- then I think you are right to say no.

For those saying "there's always drinking at weddings"- yes, that is usually the case. But one parent (or grandparent/other relative) will not be drinking, or only having one or two small drinks. Not everyone getting blotto in a massive piss up. I, for one, would not want my young children to see lots of their relatives getting absolutely legless. Even at a wedding. It's not necessary to subject them to that- in fact, I view it as very irresponsible.

You sound wonderful op.
Your children are lucky to have you.

@BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil "There is a women's refuge who I have attended for counselling before and they would be an excellent first port of call." great idea.

"Im terrified they might copy me." It is possible but I hope you will make them aware of the things you now understand about how the power play works out.

"I want to stop this cycle .Thankyou so much." Thank you for sharing.

I think, aside from the desire to stop history repeating itself, there are a lot of reasons for your girls to understand what happened in their family. One is that at some point they can make a choice to limit contact with their dad and his wider family, but they may not be able to choose to do this if they do not know what really happened.

Also, there is always the possibility their dad could be violent or controlling with them or their kids, if they have any, so forewarned and all that.

The other very good reason relating to this thread is when your ex/if your ex starts the old 'my sister wanted you girls to be flower girls' thing, your girls will understand there is more to this.

But again, please take advice on how to do this and avoid any revelations where you will need to go out, do something significant or the girls will, later that day. Allow that this may peculate down so don't start a conversation on the way to a big event or just before a birthday/Christmas etc.

In adoption circles we avoid birthday/start of term/Christmas if we can for letters from birth family etc because we want those times to be free of any memories or angst etc.

But I'd say if they start some discussions be ready.

I am lucky my little boy had a relatively easy (in adoption circles) start to life so I'm not exactly speaking from vast experience on this. Just a very tiny incite on experience about these types of conversation.

I agree with GlitteryFluff
"You sound wonderful op." and yes,
"Your children are lucky to have you."

Agree ask the girls what they want and go with that

And then draw a line thereafter

Thanks god he is an Ex

OP
Ignore
Me and listen the the wiser posters

I am Sorry he was such a fucking shit

If a wedding was happening which I wanted my daughter to attend and the event wasn’t on my access weekend

Guess what I would do first- talk to the other parent and ask if we could talk about access for that weekend, was it convenient would it be possible to swap etc

That’s what normal human parents do

As for asking each child what they want to do

That’s really not fair on them - how are they supposed to know who to please, what happens if they feel bad for upsetting one parent over the other, or worse what if one does what her sibling wants to keep the peace

Fucking he’ll that’s not fair on kids

Right have read whole thread (not bad for this time of night). Same as majodity I was thinking "oh you should let them go" for the first half page or so. After that - no fucking way.

Don't feel too sorry for his sister. Yes she seems nice, yes she probably did think you'd be told about the wedding months ago but equally she is willfully blinding herself to the truth about her brother. And in doing so she's harming you and risking the safety of your dds.

I do wish people would read threads before posting.

Having read the latest updates to the thread, I have to say I think the OP should look to get legal advice with a view to preventing this man having any further contact with the DC, never mind having them attending the wedding. He sounds like exactly the sort of man who should be the last person allowed near young children with his violent history.

@TeisanLap not a flaming word. Just angsty texts from The Idiot.

I admire you. I really do. How they’ve managed to rig 3 kids out as flower girls without them trying things on and without them getting wind of the wedding would have me straining at the bit. I’d just have to know how they were able to pull it off.