Nightmare child and dh constantly undermining me.

[Justalittlelemondrizzle]

So dd2 is a nightmare! Her behaviour has become increasingly worse during the last year. Everything is a battle, getting her to school, eating her dinner, going to bed, etc.
About a month ago, after the holiday of a lifetime was marred by her behaviour I decided to be tougher.
This has been met with resistance from H who says I am now treating the dcs differently. Even saying to dd2 tonight "we all know who is mummys favourite" I mean who says that to a 9 year old. I don't have favourites!!
I'm not treating them differently dd1 can be a bit lippy and has her moments but nothing serious. "So obviously the punishments have to reflect the crime" so to speak.
I'm not being overly tough. But I am not letting her get away with treating me like shit anymore. And she is now using him against me.
I can't get him on board. I have tried. He says I'm not fit to be a mother because I wouldnt let her stay up to watch something tonight because of the way she'd just treated me (screaming at me, calling me names and spraying hairspray in mine and dd1s direction!! when I was attempting to dry her hair)

He's saying my punishments are unfair (she's grounded indefinitely until her behaviour improves) this decision wasn't taken lightly. This is after trying everything else for weeks. (Loss of screen time, grounded for an evening etc) these things wernt working. She'd just do her time and behave just as badly the next day, and the cycle would continue over and over again.

I'm trying to be consistent. Im trying to be fair. But I'm being constantly undermined by him and it's giving her more ammunition to behave badly.

Any advice re dd? And him..

Me and dh usually have a fine relationship. We don't argue. Are on the same page with most things. Until now.
Dd2s behaviour has caused a rift.

You and DH really are responsible for your relationship. From the sounds of it DD is having a hard time for reasons you are yet to discover and a result her behaviour has deteriorated. That's the kind of stress that happens when you have kids. If the stress has caused problems in your relationship it certainly isn't DD2's fault.

Parenting classes are an excellent suggestion Lunde

There's always a reason behind this kind of behaviour. Always. You just have to find out what it is. May I respectfully suggest you find yourself a parenting course to break this spiral of negativity that has taken over your family? Honestly, it can be so helpful. I've recently completed one because I am divorcing and I wanted to equip myself as well as possible to support our DDs with that (they are 15 and 17). My DDs were not difficult - but even so I learned so many things I could do differently and better and as a result we are a happier, more peaceful household (and we were pretty good to start with). You need some outside support to break this pattern because it isn't helping anyone.

I agree that bad behaviour sometimes needs to be punished, but some children are more difficult than others and for those children, constant punishment and conflict can lead to a very negative cycle that needs to be broken by changing tactics.

However, I think the worst possible thing for a child is when one parent undermines the other in such an express and overt way that your husband is doing.

Sorry I didn't read all the replies. But I was in a similar situation to yours with my DD and my OH.
I had several "quiet words" with him about the situation and parenting styles. Eventually we agreed on a battle plan which was compromise for both of us. but most importantly a united front for DD.
We decided that punishment didn't really work in the long run - you have already grounded her indefinitely... what is the next step of she doesn't improve???
Instead I chose the talk & walk away approach.
I had a good chat about hormones, that we all feel horrible sometimes and all we want is pick a fight if things don't go out way,... I explained that feeling angry with people is completely normal BUT that she has to learn to deal with this in a different way. My suggestion was that the best way is to remove herself from the situation until she has calmed down (going to her room) and once she is calmed we can discuss the matter that made her angry.
I'm at a point now where I can tell her that she feels agitated and what she is going to do... walk or stay calm? Sometimes she will tell me that she needs a few minutes and I have to respect that too.
At age 9, your DD is definitely hormonal and it is time to slowly change your parenting from dependant child to more independent teen.

She has no need to seek attention. She gets praise and attention when she's good. If anyone should be seeking attention it should be dd1. Who is losing out because if all of this.

Just the whole tone of your responses comes across as very hostile to DD2. You describe her as a "nightmare" and DD1 as perfectly behaved. You lay the blame totally at her feet and just seem to want to take your frustration at the situation all out on DD2. She's a 9 year old girl she won't understand your attitude but she will 100% play up to the role you're painting her into.

Look at what you're expecting of her. If you can't let go of your anger and resentment towards her, how are you expecting her to change your attitude towards you?

If you're not connected to her punishments are not going to work. You must see that grounding her indefinitely is clearly ridiculous. You've essentially given her a life sentence.

You need to concentrate on giving her positive attention, even when her behaviour is awful - start the day positively and try and continue it as much as possible.

not impossible to be starting puberty early-but your dh needs to stop with his comments and undermining you in front of dd

if he doesnt agree wait till theyre out the room to dicuss

You are blaming her for the problems in your marriage and also blaming her for your unhappy home! She is a child FFS!Both you and your husband need to get a grip and look in the mirror !
Your tone on this post explains lot !

Haven't read the replies but I think the main thing you need to tell her is that you love her no matter what, but it's her behaviour your don't like. You love and like her, you hate and it hurts, her behaviour.

Like dancingleopards advice-sometimes their behaviour overwhelms them so a hug or 'u ok? ' helps. Think we have been too soft too. Kids are clever at realising where they can manipulate a situ too esp when they catch on that parents aren't agreeing on how to handle a situ. Have u asked her why she behaves like this? Sorry if sounds obvious-know it's a shit time for you.

I tell her I love her all the time. I tell her it's the behaviour I don't like not her. We have lots of chats about her feelings etc. I've tried reward charts/marble jars/special treat/days out/positive parenting and love bombing.

Please try positive parenting with her. Try to find that something that she has done right instead of total focus on what was wrong. For example, I was getting angry with my ds because she never got her shoes on for school and every morning we searched and argued. I had to think of the positives. What did she do that was right. In my DS it was that she got dressed and brushed her teeth. So I praised her for that and said, that was really helpful, but what could really make a difference is if you got your shoes on when it is time to go and I thanked her. It worked! I couldn't believe it. I know it sounds ridiculous, but just trying to give an example of how it works. Find the good in her and you may find things change.

Whatever you agree with your dh needs to be consistent and united.

Sit down with your dh and agree your strategy.

Then you reset the clock. She is ungrounded and the new system is in place. Clear boundaries, choices like "either you stop xx or you go to your room". Then dd feels she has some control.

You both need to enjoy her where you can!

Colblu24 said

"You sound very angry and if you change as the adult you'll give her a better example on how to behave towards people.
You may not feel like it but love her and enjoy her. Remember this are the easy years before the dreaded teens."

Of course the OP sounds angry and rightly so. Why does the OP need to change to show DD a better example of how to behave? It's DD's behaviour that needs improving not OP's.

I think you are right OP, you have ignored low level bad behaviour and knowing she can get away with it with no consequences she has just got progressively worse.

I'm sorry but I agree with you OP regarding grounding. If you back down on this she has won. She wants to play out and you have told her that her behaviour needs to improve to get this privilege.

I do think though that without the backing of your husband it will be very hard. His actions are not helping at all.

The real problem is your husband’s manipulation of your DD. She going to get damaged by it. He’s using her to get at you. I wonder if he’d actually started doing subtly and you that’s what’s led to her behaviour change. And now it’s escalted.

Saying ‘we all know whose mummy’s favourite is’ is imbecilic. He’s basically telling her that her mother prefers her sister. It’s very clearly not true and he’s only trying to get at you because he thinks you’re being ‘mean’ to her by disciplining - but she’s the one who will get hurt.

Just the whole tone of your responses comes across as very hostile to DD2. You describe her as a "nightmare" and DD1 as perfectly behaved. You lay the blame totally at her feet and just seem to want to take your frustration at the situation all out on DD2. She's a 9 year old girl she won't understand your attitude but she will 100% play up to the role you're painting her into.

You are blaming her for the problems in your marriage and also blaming her for your unhappy home! She is a child FFS!

These. Pay attention to them.

There is a phenomena in families called ‘scapegoating’ where one member of the family is viewed as bad and defective and to blame for all the problems in the family. It’s a method of avoidance which allows the rest of the family not to face their own input into the family’s problems by blaming it all on the scapegoat. It’s also highly destructive and can have an awful affect on the scapegoats personality, mental health and future prospects including relationships.

Your family sounds like that to a tee. Family therapy might be helpful. Your cycle of bad behaviour and punishment clearly isn’t working either. Love bombing was suggested earlier and that’s something you need to look into.

In terms of your relationship with DH while he was 100% wrong to make comments in front of the kids I do think you also need to discuss parenting with him before you make decisions. It sounds like you decided on your own to go way over the top with the punishments and he's had not choice in it. You said you're relationship has always been fine in the past so it's probably a good idea to listen to his point of view. Take the high road, wait till the girls are asleep and have a calm discussion with him. Ask him what he thinks might be up with DD2 and how you should approach it. Reach a compromise and importantly agree that you'll listen to his point of view but he shouldn't undermine you in front of the kids.

DancingLeopards’ advice is very sound.
At 9yrs old you have a little window of time before you lose any influence.

Spend time together, try and understand why she’s being such an arsehole

When you need to have a sanction, make it a positive rather than a negative.
Pick up rubbish in the garden/ hoover the house/ tidy the coats & shoes etc.
Make sure she does something positive as a punishment that you can praise her for and you both feel that she’s ‘ discharged her crime’ by doing something good, rather than just taking away her fun.

Your DP shouldn’t be undermining you but maybe he feels you’re managing this wrongly.
Have a proper talk about how to manage DD, listen to each other and agree to back each other up.

I am angry boopeep but more sad than anything. We used to be so close and the bad behaviour is slowly destroying our relationship and everyone else around us. Family who used to have the dds in the school holidays now don't want to have dd2. She has no respect for the people who do the most for her. Whereas certain family members who do nothing for her she treats like gods.

I'm definately not going to let her out until her behaviour improves. A pp said it was like a life sentence. It's not. I have explained to her that if her behaviour improves for a specific amour of time she will be allowed out. She hasn't even managed a full day of good behaviour yet.

Why are posters telling you to treat her like "an independent teen" she isn't a teen, she's 9!!

So she's not only like this at home then?

You're blaming her for your relationship with your Dh. You're blaming her for not being able to get childcare. You're blaming her for not responding in a way that she has shown she is incapable of responding in. And I don't even know where to begin with you sending 'secret' messages to your other child. . .
Whether intentionally or not, you're trying to isolate a 9-yr-old from what should be her support network (you, DH, her DSIS, wider family, her friends).
I'd assume you'd agree that your current way isn't working. Family therapy would be a good step. If you can't commit to that, then both yourself and DH should read 'How To Talk'.
You say you were too permissive before. Now you've decided there's to be a massive shift to being authoritarian and you expect a child to process this. You need to stop blaming everyone else for this (ie DD and your DH). You are playing a massive role in creating an unhappy family.

Your use of the word 'undermining' says a lot. Essentially, you are saying "I'm in charge" and you expect DH to follow meekly along. Perhaps he thinks you are being unfair and over-reacting, and is trying to defuse the situation before you do long-lasting and serious damage to your relationship with your (and his) child?

Perhaps he thinks you are being unfair and over-reacting, and is trying to defuse the situation before you do long-lasting and serious damage to your relationship with your (and his) child?

He’s just making things worse.

Parenting is such a difficult job and to be honest you could ask twenty DM's for their opinion and get twenty totally different responses. I think you need to do what you believe is the right way for you.

I am a firm believer in children learning the consequences of their actions. She's rude and abusive she stays in, she behaves and at least tries and she's allowed out.

You suddenly giving in to her and showering her with attention as thanks for her awful rudeness is not the way I would go, but of course, that is just my opinion.

Mine are 12 and 15 and I've always been ultra strict as I've had no support so really had to keep on top of things re discipline. It's worked for me but as I said, we are all different.