Nightmare child and dh constantly undermining me.

[Justalittlelemondrizzle]

So dd2 is a nightmare! Her behaviour has become increasingly worse during the last year. Everything is a battle, getting her to school, eating her dinner, going to bed, etc.
About a month ago, after the holiday of a lifetime was marred by her behaviour I decided to be tougher.
This has been met with resistance from H who says I am now treating the dcs differently. Even saying to dd2 tonight "we all know who is mummys favourite" I mean who says that to a 9 year old. I don't have favourites!!
I'm not treating them differently dd1 can be a bit lippy and has her moments but nothing serious. "So obviously the punishments have to reflect the crime" so to speak.
I'm not being overly tough. But I am not letting her get away with treating me like shit anymore. And she is now using him against me.
I can't get him on board. I have tried. He says I'm not fit to be a mother because I wouldnt let her stay up to watch something tonight because of the way she'd just treated me (screaming at me, calling me names and spraying hairspray in mine and dd1s direction!! when I was attempting to dry her hair)

He's saying my punishments are unfair (she's grounded indefinitely until her behaviour improves) this decision wasn't taken lightly. This is after trying everything else for weeks. (Loss of screen time, grounded for an evening etc) these things wernt working. She'd just do her time and behave just as badly the next day, and the cycle would continue over and over again.

I'm trying to be consistent. Im trying to be fair. But I'm being constantly undermined by him and it's giving her more ammunition to behave badly.

Any advice re dd? And him..

@Moimasturbate Perhaps read the thread then, or at least op's posts.

Once again, op readily admits NOTHING ...once again, NOTHING is working.

OP I apologise but I had a look at past posts to get a sense of this and I have to say firstly I apologise again - your husband is part of the problem but the issues you have with him are nothing to do with your daughters and pretty much to do with him. Your marriage issues I suspect are causing some of this and I think do need to be looked at.

Secondly you have been having issues on and off with both of them for awhile - I think in a way littleboopeep is right this isnt something that can be solved by asking strangers on the internet - this needs some professional input on all levels:

1. to sort out if there is an underlying behavioural cause for your DD
2. to help you come up with proper strategies for dealing with the behaviour
3. to get some counselling as a couple to help solve your issues there

I posted on this earlier as I was so sorry for all the posts the OP was getting and just wanted to support her. I’ve had a look this morning in the hope people were being kinder. Alas I see mainly not. OP so sorry. This could have been me a few years back and I would have been furious, absolutely incandescent with the degree of smug assumptions, and the unsophisticated armchair psychology. All I can say is in amongst it all there are maybe some helpful suggestions.
I remember my osteopath, a lovely funny lady saying to me once when I said how mortified I’d been when a posh neighbour dropped in unexpectedly when the house was an utter pit. “Just think of yourself as serving a useful social function. By having a house in utter disarray, everyone else will feel superior, and therefore feel better about themselves.”
I think many people on this thread who have accused you of all sorts will no doubt comfort themselves with the thought that they are such good parents, this sort of thing would NEVER happen to them.
OP I hope things get better, but I would delete the thread if I were you, x

Obviously you and DH can't both be right.
But maybe you are both wrong.

The thing is OP, if you keep doing the same thing you will keep getting the same results.

The punishment you have set out is overwhelming for a child.

It’s easy for you as an adult to see the logic of ‘if I behave nicely I will stop being grounded’ you know how long it will take and what behaviour you want from her for you to decide when she is ungrounded. She doesn’t know any of this.

For all she knows you might be thinking months of behaviour she feels she cannot achieve before you unground her. Add into the fact your DH is undermining you and affecting the trust between you and your DC she may think you can’t be trusted to ever unground her even if she behaves like an angel. So she doesn’t behave and basically thinks what’s the point as it’s so impossible for her to achieve.

In her world she knows how to be ‘bad’ it’s the easiest option for her why bother being anything else as you said none of the family want to know her as she is such a ‘bad’ child.

You play her elder DSis off against her (she will know you are doing this even if you think she doesn’t) and her father is showing her his upmost contempt for you, so why should she feel anything you say or do is ultimately to help her. She probably thinks you really dislike her and in a very twisted way her father is becoming her saviour against you.

She sounds like a very confused little girl with all of the adults around her failing her by making her feel like she is a bad person.

It’s a very big thing to try and come back from being the bad person and far too much for a little girl to manage on their own.

You all need some family therapy ASAP.
Your DH and yourself need some parenting classes.
You need to think about your marriage and if you want to try to mend it, or even if you can. I would then suggest separate relationship therapy for you and DH.

I’m sorry if my post sounds harsh. I can understand your point and why you are in this mess completely but you are being very rigid in your thinking how to resolve these problems and I don’t see it getting any better without some serious outside help.

The posters throwing their weight around with the harsher punishment attitude is ridiculous. There is a reason parenting methods have moved on since the dark ages.

I think many people on this thread who have accused you of all sorts will no doubt comfort themselves with the thought that they are such good parents, this sort of thing would NEVER happen to them

Well I can't speak for other parents, but I have had occasions when my dd behaved appallingly and punishment didn't work. So I had to change tack. Because it is not a question of how hard I can punish and show my disapproval of certain behaviour, it is how do I end up with a decent and relatively happy child.

I'm just delighted to see that nearly all the posters here are of the same opinion. That if punishment doesn't work, you don't keep on increasing it, you find something that does work.

Parenting is tough but one thing I and DH learnt when bringing up our two DDs (now adults and one a parent herself) is you and your DH need to be on the same page so talking to him should be your first priority so you can agree between you which behaviours you are okish with and which are definitely not on. Rude and aggressive behaviour I think is definitely punishable but not eating dinner is quite ridiculous.

9 is an age when hormones start to kick in, peer groups in school may be making her school life unhappy. Does she have friends? I am guessing so as you say grounding her seems to be the only thing you can do but apparently that is not working. I think your family are not helping by labelling her as "difficult" and refusing to babysit her. That is damaging so I think it best you don't send either of your girls to them. Pigeon holing children so one is good and one is bad is not helpful.

You have tried love bombing and one on one time and that is not helping either. I would just say as others have, praise the good and ignore the bad unless really bad and pick your battles. You and DH need to be on the same side so she does not play one off against the other. Maybe family therapy would be useful before this negative cycle damages your relationship with your DD2 is affected beyond redemption.

FWIW my DD1 was a troubled young teen from about 10 or 11, mainly down to hormones we think now and she admits as an adult now that she thinks she must have been a nightmare. She was a lovely girl but was sensitive and prone to outbursts where mainly I got the brunt of her unhappiness at the time usually down to school and how bitchy some girls can be at that age. We tried Agnus Castus, a herbal supplement to even out her moods and I think it helped although really it was only time that made the difference. She was often rude though but never aggressive.

I feel for you and your DD2 though. Parenting is tough but so is growing up. Try not to think of you being on opposite sides.

I think many people on this thread who have accused you of all sorts will no doubt comfort themselves with the thought that they are such good parents, this sort of thing would NEVER happen to them - @nellieellie
I think it is probably more to do with the fact that we HAVE been where the op is, and it HAS happened to us (and you would see that if you bothered reading the posts, because I know that I have said we were in EXACTLY the position the op is in) and can give some insight as what worked for us and what didn't. And that because of our experiences, we know what the op could try now, or what avenues she should take in order to get more help.

So perhaps think, and read, and think again before you bring out the "perfect parents" line in order to try to insult us, belittle our words/experiences and try to be the only voice the op should be listening to.

Differentname. I think my post was clear in that I was not criticising all posts actually (the bit about helpful suggestions?.....). There IS a contingent that are blaming the OP, talking about ‘issues’, ‘repeating patterns’, and blaming the idea of ‘consequences’ for bad behaviour, not to mention accusing her of being ‘negative’ about her child. Just to clarify.

nellieellie
I made a comment about repeating patterns because we do repeat the parenting we have received. People start threads titled "I think I am turning into my Mother". We get our parenting tool kit from our parenting experiences. My parenting toolkit was pretty rubbish based on how I was parented so I needed to find some new tools.

I was suggesting to the OP that the same might be true for her. When you have more than one child it is easy to try the same approach for both children and blame the child for whom that approach doesn't work. However, the child cannot change their personality to fit your parenting style so you need to change your parenting style to fit the child.

The OP wants things to be better for her DD2. What the OP is doing right now is not working. She needs to find a new approach if she wants a different results.

I don't need you to clarify, I read your post. I was responding to your "perfect parents" line, and how op should ignore those of us who you believe are "perfect"

Everyone keeps writing on here about how the OP is being unrealistic, too harsh and that it clearly isn't working. Did you not read that she has also tried 'love bombing" spending lots of quality 1-1 time with her and none of that has worked either.

How do most of you ever get your DC's to behave with this softly, softly approach.

"Scream in my face and swear at me once more and you are going to lose your iPad.....for a whole 30 minutes" Wow!!

Then we get posters on here who are teachers at the end of their tether because kids are so out of control, and what's worse, when they try to discipline them they have the parents to deal with, asking how their perfect little Johnny snowflake could possibly be given detention.

At my DS's last parents' evening I saw his math's teacher and commented to him that my son tells me he's very strict. He looked so worried and started telling me how he only shouts when there is a real need etc.Then when I told him that strict is good and that I like and prefer strict, he told me that he had never heard that from a parent before.

My DS is used to strict too and if he misbehaves he knows he will lose privileges. Depending on what he's done, it may be no Xbox for the rest of the day, or no Xbox for a week. Needless to say I rarely need to implement loss of privileges because he knows bad behaviour equals consequences. I'm sure if he misbehaved and I said "no Xbox for 30 mins and if you stick to it I'll take you to the cinema" I'd be dealing with a very different child.

Stop being afraid to chastise children and step up and be the parent. There are far too many parents wanting to be their child's best friend, it doesn't work.

Read what the OP said in her post, it was being far too soft for too long that saw a deterioration in her DC, probably let things get so far it's hard to know what to do to pull it back.

If any teachers are reading this, how many of you believe that stricter parenting would make your job easier?

Oh and no, I'm not a tyrant, my kids aren't scared of me or damaged or abused. They are well adjusted, well behaved independent kids who respect others.

Am I the perfect parent, I wish!!! Probably made as many or more than the rest of you, but bringing mine up to understand consequences has undoubtedly worked for me.

Moi
Where does the OP go after indefinite grounding? What is the next rung on the punishment escalation ladder?

I am a pretty strict parent and I have boxed myself into a corner at times where the punishment is so strict as to be unreasonable and I have had to sit down with the DC and agree something more appropriate. The DC do need a sense of the punishment being time bound and proportionate.

I hope that you have received a lot of advice from people OP.

The one thing I wanted to add was, why ground her? Why take away one of the hugely important and healthy things that she is doing ie playing outside, running around, being with friends? Surely that is just the kind of thing that you want her to be doing and just the kind of thing that will help her develop in a healthy way mentally and physically.

SeaCabbage What???? Why ground her????

Have you not read some of her behaviours? Do you not usually restrict or deny the thing the DC loves most in order for it to work as a consequence. What else could she restrict, maybe telling her she is not allowed to watch News at Ten for a week??

I know what you are saying Chaz. My DH once ridiculously said no TV for a month over something so trivial and I had to explain to him that it was way OTT.

I don't think any of us can know the answer unless we are professionals in that field, which is why many have said, speak to her school.

As I said though I do believe she should face loss of privileges for such awful behaviour

I don't think any of us can know the answer unless we are professionals in that field

This keeps coming up, parents are professionals at raising children. I have had plenty of input from professionals as I have 2 children with AN but their advice is only part of the story of raising a difficult child. Other parents are very often great sources of help especially parents who have been though similar difficulties. I really think “parenting” experts can be way, way overhyped on MN.

Understand what you are saying pink but when literally everything has been tried and failed where then?

Fair point Moi I do think there is a place for professionals but imho they are very much only part of the solution, a small part in my experience. Self reflection, genuinely trying different things (not for a minute saying the OP hasn’t) looking at a common, consistent parenting approach and getting advice from other parents are all also invaluable.

Wonder if OP is still reading all these posts? Or buggered off cos of all the backbiting. Couldn't blame her really...

she's grounded indefinitely until her behaviour improves
This will never help. You are creating a rift between you.

I'm not blaming her. I'm blaming her behaviour.
She's 9 - do you REALLY expect her to not feel she is being blamed?

You show absolutely no understanding of behaviour. I also recommend that you look up parenting courses - they can really help you get some decent systems into place. Your inconsistent approach has made things worse, your DH and you can't agree on your approach and your DD doesn't know what the hell is going on. She is the child - it's not her fault. It's down to both you and your DH.

This book will really help you find a better way of supporting your child to encourage better behaviour.
The Explosive Child