Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

OP, I'm so sorry that you're being accused of being "grabby". It isn't about the money but the principle of fairness. Clearly your MiL believed in this principle because she left her three sons equal shares of her estate. To exclude the money the other two sons have already had - two thirds of her savings in one case - clearly erodes that fairness.

If the money was a loan it will need to be considered as part of the estate for probate purposes. Equally if it is considered a gift, if it was made in the seven years before MiL died, there will be IHT implications. Either way it will need to be reflected in the probate application. It can't just disappear.

I hope your BiL does the decent thing or can live with himself if he doesn't.

You have the right outlook now you're reflecting OP. Yes people can leave their money anyway they like. Those who think they should be equally included are entitled to question the division of assets and its message. You have the right to be offended and hurt. It may not have been intentional but how are you to know that now? Your feelings are as valid as the Mother's wishes.

I don't understand the nasty replies on here. BIL has said it was a loan, in which case it should be added back and divided between the 3 brothers. That would be the only fair way.

Unfortunately what could happen is BIL denies it was a loan, in which case you will have to split the remainder between 3.

Of course we all want a good relationship with family but if BIL is prepared to take financial advantage like this then is that relationship worth saving? There will always be bitterness now.

Families and money YANBU but the sad fact is we learn so much more about oir family members when they die. Legally unless it was written up as a loan agreement (and you have evidence of such) or there was specific stipulation on the will it could be a hard and expensive case to win. It would be worth contacting a family litigation lawyer though with all the paperwork you have.

If it isn't in the will, and no loan agreement. Then tough I'm afraid. You are at the mercy of the other beneficiaries and whether they want to help you out.

This. You have to follow the will to the letter.

So many of you declaring the OP to be "grabby" are displayingignorance of the legal position. Listen to what those of us with relevant professional qualifications are saying, rather than making groundless accusations. HMRC would have a field day if you were left to deal with probate & IHT. There are strict rules which executors must follow and most married couples work as a team on these things, rather than simply saying "Your mother, your problem!"

Gave him the money or lent him the money. If she gave it to him there isn't a lot you can do about it. If it was a loan and there is proof then it might affect who gets what. I don't think you've much chance of altering the will tbh whatever the moral aspects are. You obviously think you deserve more but getting it is something else.

Why would the relationship with BIL be altered if you do nothing? Life would just go on as normal surely.

She gave him the money whist still alive, it's not part of the inheritance and you both had no say in how she spent it. I think the back trawling through bank statements is awful. Maybe that's why she didn't give your DH any given that attitude.

She gave him the money whist still alive, it's not part of the inheritance and you both had no say in how she spent it. I think the back trawling through bank statements is awful. Maybe that's why she didn't give your DH any given that attitude

Sigh.

I think the back trawling through bank statements is awful. Maybe that's why she didn't give your DH any given that attitude

What a horrible thing to say you have no idea what these people are like or why they were going through statements. How someone can make such a horrible judgement of what a deceased mother might have thought of her son then post it to his wife is awful.

Boxsets probate and inheritance tax aren't optional extras, they are legal requirements which the executors have to apply. If MIL also had property, her estate is likely to exceed the IHT limits and the timing of the gift/loan becomes fundamental in determining the tax due on the whole estate. It's nothing to do with attitude, all 3 executors have a legal duty to do it.

BoxsetsandPopcorns, there speaks someone with no gift for holding a grudge! I'd be completely unable to move beyond this.

(a) MIL has treated her three sons very differently for no obvious reason other than favouritism, and that's hard to get past.

(b) The two BILs are both treating this as a non-issue because it's in their interests to do so. Not the least acknowledgement that they were given substantial leg ups by their mother which their brother didn't get, even though he's the one who needs a bit of help now.

It's all very well saying "her money, her choice" but its a weapon in situations like this

There are people who use their wills as a final ‘f*ck you’ to their relatives. In some cases (not all) it’s unjustified, nasty, vindictive and deliberately hurtful. It’s the ultimate punch in the face that can never be undone and can destroy family relationships.

I know three siblings. Their grandfather left his entire estate to two of them. He disinherited the other one because she had a child ‘by a n*er’ out of wedlock.

Fortunately, the other two siblings split their inheritance equally between the three of them. I can’t imagine how she would have felt if they had decided to keep it (as many on here think they would have had every moral right to do without the other sibling having any right to feel let down).

Well If he pays back the loan he won be paying it back to his MUM, he will be paying it to you.

It was her choice to lain this money and unless there is paperwork to substantiate the agreement I'm afraid you have no right to the money.

Be grateful for what you have got from her.

Sorry for your husbands loss.

I also don't understand why the relationship with the brother should change either.

The mother elected to give him money to start a business when she was alive. She did not have this written up as a loan so happy to have it written off. She was helping her child. She did not wish to tell her other children and she did not wish to change her will to reflect it. That is and was her choice and one the op and her husband have to accept and respect. No matter how much they dislike that she gave him money and not them.

Any tax implications though clearly need to be at the brothers cost.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn technically you are right of course. But really?! You’d expect us to carry on with family & sibling relations as normal knowing that his very comfortable life has been funded by this 6-figure loan that wasn’t repaid? Well you must be a bigger person than me.

@hoopyloopy2

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

What would you have done if your MIL hadn't died?!

I think it's preposterous to depend and rely in financial help ad handouts from elderly parents when you're grown and (supposedly) responsible adults.

@hoopyloopy2

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

What would you have done if your MIL hadn't died?! confused

I think it's preposterous to depend and rely on financial help and handouts from elderly parents when you're grown and (supposedly) responsible adults.

Thank you Hopeful88. He had a loving relationship with his mum and never asked her for a penny. This is why it now hurts.

I also don't understand why the relationship with the brother should change either.

I love my brother and if my parents gave me a significant sum I would want him to have the same. I could never just accept the money knowing a chunk should have been his and I'm sure he wouldn't either. It works both ways.
Either the mother thought this would be paid back or she did favour the other son. I would simply not take financial gain from my parents in this way knowing the one that would lose out would be my brother.

Hoopyloopy. You're about to get 6 figures yourself are you not?

If BIL admits it was a loan, the amount would be added back to the estate but I don't think he'd have to part with any money, although it would depend on the amounts involved.

Tax then calculated on total amount of estate (including loan).

Tax paid.

Remaining estate then divided up in accordance with will.

Say that he was due to get £250k from the will and the loan was £150k. He'd actually get £100k.

Ignoring the money the other brother got, he and OP's DH would get the full £250k each.

If these sums are in any way realistic, no wonder the brothers are at odds with each other. These are life-changing sums for most of us.

Only on MN are people declared "grabby" when discussing such unfair and potentially divisive treatment. BIL said it was a loan. It needs to be taken into account in the estate. How could anyone look their siblings in the eye knowing they took an unfair amount?

Any sibling relationship worth its salt, one sib wouldn’t want to inherit at the expense of the other - or even give them cause to think they are.

Not an inheritance thing, but my brother drives, and i organised and turns up at get-togethers with full wallet. I don’t drive, and am sometimes a bit scatty. I went through a patch where I did a long ride-share with DB without th8nking to contribute petrol money, and several times managed to turn up having forgotten to go to the cash point or was slow in offering to pay for meals. I took myself in hand because I realised I was in danger of looking like a freeloader - through doziness not deliberate...but still.

And we’re talking here about a few £10, not £k00s.

florascotia2 Talkinpeece said to leave it to the executors, I was just pointing out that the OP's DH & his DBs are the executors so they are the ones who have to sort out any tax implications of gift v loan. Nothing more than that.