Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

Any sibling relationship worth its salt, one sib wouldn’t want to inherit at the expense of the other

Exactly. And that's what the ops husband wishes to do. He wishes to inherit at the expense of his brother because he wants to go back over his mother's life, see his brother got more when she was alive, so he wants to take his inheritance off him to in some way make up for it.

People have to get their heads round the fact the money the mother gave the brother was not inheritance. It was nothing to do with the op and her husband and a number of years ago.

The inheritance is what's in the estate at the point of death after all debts paidamd then distributed as per the mother's wishes.

The ops husband is trying to take the brothers inheritance off of him. It's wrong. The inheritance is nothing to do with what the mother did with her own money when she was alive.

I bet the same brother would ask for money from the estate if he had lent his mother money, and not the other way around.

Sigh indeed, sticker

As you and others have said, it's just not up to the brothers to decide among themselves what will happen to their late mother's money and property. There is probate, HMRC rules and the will. And following those legal arrangements is nothing to do with emotional rights or grievances, however powerful those feelings are.

Even the issue - which is an interesting one - of the late mother's intention at the time she died could have been cheaply and easily settled. If she'd wanted to, she could have got her solicitor to draw up a document 'forgiving' any loan or loans she'd made to her son at her death. (That would have tax implications, of course.) The fact that no such document exists might just possibly help the OP's cause, but since the mother had not documented the existence of the loan in the first place (again, cheap and easy to do), probably not.

I do wish secondary schools included just one or two lessons about
wills and inheritance. Not the fiddly details, obviously, but the general principles, and some general warnings. Along with a lesson about how common law marriages don't legally exist, etc etc.

@Bluntness100

The inheritance is what's in the estate at the point of death after all debts paidamd then distributed as per the mother's wishes.

Didn't you leave out the other half of 'all debts repaid'? Which would be 'all money owed collected'.

Thanks, Gnome. I see what you mean now. Did not intend criticism - but with regard to the general issue, please see mine just a v. few minutes ago.

As for this...
What would you have done if your MIL hadn't died?! confused
I think it's preposterous to depend and rely in financial help ad handouts from elderly parents when you're grown and (supposedly) responsible adults.

I agree - which is why we never asked for her help when she was alive. I just said that my dh would have loved the freedom to change career or start a business but in the real world, we have had to make our own way. BIL on the other hand went to their mum for a loan.

Jesus, inheritance makes people ugly.
I can't help but think the world would be a better place if to inherit or gift large sums of money/assets was banned and instead any money left by a person after they die would be donated to charity.

Nobody is ever entitled to inheritance. Make your own way in the world.

OP has confirmed that BIL says it was loan. The fact that the will doesn't mention the money is neither here nor there: if MIL was expecting it to be repaid eventually there would be no reason to mention it in the will. It would only get problematic if BIL said it was a gift, but he doesn't!

The executors job is to gather all the assets (i.e. including the loan), pay all the debts, then distribute the balance according to the will. BIL needs to repay the loan to the estate, and then accept his equal share of the whole, the same as his brothers.

I think the back trawling through bank statements is awful. Maybe that's why she didn't give your DH any given that attitude.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn, which part of this being the job of an executor are you not getting? If you don't do it and inheritance tax is not paid that should have been, you risk prosecution. Somebody has to do it if there is any risk that inheritance tax could be payable on money gifted in the past seven years.

How is that about an attitude?

@UnsuspectedItem

Jesus, inheritance makes people ugly.

It's because it isn't just about money, it's used as a measurement of whether or not you were loved. It's terrible to have your whole relationship with your mother/father thrown into doubt, it really hits people at a gut level. It might look on the surface as if it's all about money, but there's a lot more going on.

in the real world, we have had to make our own way.

Those are your values, and they’re fine for you. But they clearly weren’t your MIL’s values, or your BIL’s values, and you should probably try to make peace with the fact that reasonable people can disagree about it.

@unsuspected Would that also apply to parental loans to start a business? If so- YANBU. OP YANBU.

It's because it isn't just about money, it's used as a measurement of whether or not you were loved. It's terrible to have your whole relationship with your mother/father thrown into doubt, it really hits people at a gut level.

And how much love your siblings have for you. Or not.

I think you should have the conversation with BIL. To be honest that amount of money is surely taxable there are rules about gving gifts away although I am no expert of course. Not sure if it applies to loans.

I dont think MIL would have thought to put a caveat in the will. As you say things are altered now forever so without getting into a messy fight I think if BIL is a reasonable person then he should be open to some form of negotiation. If not and you wanted to pursue it there may be a legal angle. I also think if he was smply given it then yes that was absolutely her choice and you would have to suck it up but it seems it is a loan which to me is a completely different kettle of fish.

As BIL told your DH it was a loan it would be fair to treat it as such.

It was your MIL who decided what she did with her money, you may not like it but that's how it is. If her will states everyone gets equal then that's that.

@Gettingbacktome I think is correct if it is a loan its part of the estate in the way that any debts outstanding are.

florascotia2 I totally agree that people do need greater understanding of inheritance matters.

It is easy to say that the Will is what DMiL wanted but how true is that? People write wills but they often stand for many years or decades before being executed. Provisions which seemed perfectly sensible at the time of writing can become wholly unreasonable and have the opposite effect of that intended by the time the Will is executed.

I would try to open up lines of communication on this in a calm way, eg this has happened and we have no problem at all with you having been leant the money but we feel it would be fair for this to be reflected in the inheritance split - what do you think bil?

@Jordan4531

It was your MIL who decided what she did with her money, you may not like it but that's how it is. If her will states everyone gets equal then that's that.

Not if the money is owed to the estate, because it was a loan.

And that's what the ops husband wishes to do. He wishes to inherit at the expense of his brother because he wants to go back over his mother's life, see his brother got more when she was alive, so he wants to take his inheritance off him to in some way make up for it.

Well, no. If one person is making damn sure he gets the lion’s share of the parent’s money - and there is no explicable reason for it such as profound disability limiting his ability to make his own way - it is that person who is doing so at the expense of his siblings.

It is entirely the DM’s legal right to favour one sibling over another. Although one of the points of OP’s post was that it wasn’t clear whether loan or gift. And a parent who’s going to do that should at least tell their kids what they think of them rather than just leaving them to find out. A sibling who is happy that their parent would blatantly display this favouritism to them (let alone would press the point where there is doubt) is not one who values a mutual relationship with their siblings.

You’re going to have to take the personal feelings out of this, hard as that is, or it will eat you up. MIL is the architect of this, remember, not the BIL.

Get legal advice, if that means BIL gets his loan written off, so be it.

Try not to think of the difference this money would make to you, because in reality it was never available to you.

FFS, OP has confirmed it wasn't a formal loan.

Unless the BIL agrees to it nothing can be done.

The only decision to make is how much to destroy relationships over this.

I can't see what it is to do with either brother when it was the mother who gave/lent the money. It's gone, done. Either brother could have asked for money.

Read the will, the Mother's wishes will be there.

If she saw the sum as large and a big thing then she would have written it into her will. Sadly for you OP, she didn't.

An executors job is to go through all the finances for those suggesting that he was doing it our of badness. I know as I was executor and they ask all about gifts made etc as there are tax implications.