Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

572 replies

hoopyloopy2 · 29/04/2018 13:43

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 29/04/2018 16:41

(Shrug) In my world, it's gutting that your husband is struggling financially while his brother - has received hundreds of thousands of pounds of parental help.

I understand on mn this is a vulgar view.

TalkinPeece · 29/04/2018 16:44

be sure to inform the tax man. If it was a loan it's not taxable, if it was a gift then it's income.
Aaah, yet more bollocks

Gifts are not taxable income - just ask the people raising thousands on crowdfunding sites Smile
People like the Gards and the Evans

Juells · 29/04/2018 16:45

@Midthreademergencynamechange

Plenty of posters being deliberately obtuse on this thread, as always.

Why are we being obtuse? From what the OP said (and I accept I may have misunderstood) it sounds like the MiL's will said something like 'my estate is to be divided between my three children'. If she didn't specify amounts she could have intended for that money to be part of her estate. I don't think it's at all as clear-cut as people are making out. I'd get legal advice.

Bluntness100 · 29/04/2018 16:46

I understand on mn this is a vulgar view

Don't be petty. Of course everyone understands that, what's being said is vulgar is to go through this woman's bank accounts and try to change the terms of her will after her death to get money off the sibling that she did not want them to have. That's vulgar and distasteful.

Sure they can be gutted they didn't get the same help. Sure they can be gutted they are struggling, but that's very different to fighting over your parents estate and trying to get more money out your sibling than your parent wished you to have.

roundaboutthetown · 29/04/2018 16:47

TalkinPeece - I know that is the position from a tax perspective, but as a tax accountant not a lawyer, can you be so certain that if it was a gift that it was made outside the will and not as a portion of the bil's inheritance under the will? Obviously it is irrelevant from a tax perspective, but most certainly is not remotely irrelevant to how the money gets shared out amongst the beneficiaries, which is what the OP is interested in here, not the tax position.
See, eg, www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/probate-establishing-the-testators-intention/70075.article

Helmetbymidnight · 29/04/2018 16:50

Yes, op can be gutted, it is gutting, we agree.

Juells · 29/04/2018 16:50

@TalkinPeece

Aaah, yet more bollocks

Gifts are not taxable income

Am I misunderstanding the information at this link?

www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/gifts-and-exemptions-from-inheritance-tax#what-is-a-potentially-exempt-transfer

Rafflesway · 29/04/2018 16:51

OMG Namethecat. That is just horrendous! That poor guy. 😢
Talk about telling someone from the grave that they were worthless!

As I always say, at the end of the day it's not about the money but the underlying, deeply hurtful message. This is what people who have never been in this situation usually fail to grasp. The hurt is the same be the inheritance £500K or £100!

TalkinPeece · 29/04/2018 16:53

juells
yes, you are.

Juells · 29/04/2018 16:53

A friend told me that when her mother's will was read out, all she heard was "Your mother didn't love you".

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/04/2018 16:55

It’s not being a vulture to look through where money has gone. IHT has to be paid for more recent “gifts”.

Has he admitted in writing the money was a loan?

Lichtie · 29/04/2018 16:56

Juells... That's for tax on inheritance... Ie the dead persons estate getting taxed before it is divided up... Not the person that got the gift.

ForgivenessIsDivine · 29/04/2018 16:58

My parents are a bit shit when it comes to splitting their wealth. My sister and I used to get terribly hurt over it all, now we both decline stuff we don't want and suggest that perhaps there might be better ways of sharing their wealth with us that would actually benefit us in the same way that they have helped our brother. As a result we get nothing but we are much better friends with each other and we spend many a bottle of wine sitting on our moral high ground and not feeling bitter for being manipulated.

If your BIL see what is right here then as executors all three should agree to adjust the distribution of the estate appropriately. If they don't... your DH should register his disagreement with the treatment of the loan, wrap it all up as quickly as possible and have nothing more to do with them.

Lampine · 29/04/2018 17:02

It's all very well saying "her money, her choice" but its a weapon in situations like this. Any decent parent knows not to favour one child over another, even as adults. There may be reasons why this happened, but a letter in the will to explain would have helped enormously. It is unfair and the OP has every right to feel unworthy/cheated. Even if it is 'how life is', the mother's wishes etc etc etc.

issaflame · 29/04/2018 17:03

YABU

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/04/2018 17:06

I don't think anybody can be sure that the MIL intended things to end up this way. If she made a simple will after her husband died, long before she bailed her son out, she may simply have been unable to face changing the will, or she may have meant to but never got round to it. Lots of people stick their heads in the sand when it comes to wills because it means confronting their own mortality. I expect some of them secretly tell themselves that it isn't really their problem anyway as the one sure and certain thing is that the deceased will not have to sort out the estate.

Lichtie · 29/04/2018 17:07

Lampine.. It's not necessarily about favouring one child over another. I would give every penny I had in savings to one of my children if they needed it, I wouldn't say I can only give a third if I have three.
Yes in an ideal world you want to provide for all your kids, but it sounds like they have done this regardless. OP will still end up with at least £150k, maybe they thought this was enough.

TalkinPeece · 29/04/2018 17:08

Lampine
Yup, it was horrible when it happened.
We cannot look at pictures of the person who died without wondering why they hated us.
It has poisoned our outlook on many issues
BUT
Their money
THeir choice

Original poster
hoopyloopy2 · 29/04/2018 17:09

Thanks all, OP here. Genuinely interesting to read such variation of responses, amazing how differently people feel about this. From us being money-grabbing and vulgar in complaining now, to “you don’t ask you don’t get” ie we should’ve asked for cash just like BIL when she was alive.

Yes iht will apply so that all still needs to be addressed. And to those who say we should be happy because we’ll still get a nice inheritance - it really isn’t about the money in itself. Relationship with BIL will sadly now be altered whatever happens I think. For now we’ll sit back and see what he suggests.

For those who asked - nothing in writing to say it was a loan.

OP posts:
LimonViola · 29/04/2018 17:09

I agree with bluntness completely.

"This is an excellent point. The grabby op and her husband are now deciding it was their money when she was alive. It was not. It was the mother's to do with as she pleased. They had no claim on it.

The inheritance is what is in the estate when she has passed away and as she dictated in her will. That's it. No ifs and buts.

And going through her bank accounts is simply appalling. It was a private matter between her and her son and had she wanted the op and her husband to know she would have told them. She did not. They should not now be so disrepesctful and trawl through her bank accounts like vultures.

Op, you and your husband should have some respect."

If MIL wanted the money to be taken into account upon her death she'd have written so into her will.

You sound bitter that another relative got a leg up and like you feel somehow entitled to the money. You're not. Have some respect for god's sake.

TalkinPeece · 29/04/2018 17:12

limonviola
And going through her bank accounts is simply appalling. It was a private matter between her and her son and had she wanted the op and her husband to know she would have told them. She did not. They should not now be so disrepesctful and trawl through her bank accounts like vultures.
Have you actually read the thread ?

Executors of estates have a legal duty to ascertain the value of the estate
that is what Probate is about
it would be negligent NOT to check the finances

Goldmandra · 29/04/2018 17:12

To those getting wound up about people going through the bank statements of the deceased, you need to be aware that this is part of the role of the executor. They have to be sure that any money gifted in the last seven years would not take the estate into inheritance tax territory.

You can ask a solicitor to do this on your behalf but my DH was his mother's sole executor and I went through the last seven years of her bank statements for this exact purpose because he didn't see the need to pay a solicitor to do it.

I think that TalkinPeece makes a good point in that the brother could reasonably be expected to pay at least the inheritance tax due on his 'loan' even if he doesn't feel obliged to pay the value of the loan back to the estate. It wouldn't seem fair for his siblings to have to pay extra tax because he received the money less than seven years before she died.

Original poster
hoopyloopy2 · 29/04/2018 17:13

To be clear, BIL was not desperate or on the breadline at the time. He used the money to start a business.

OP posts:
boywiththebrokensmile2 · 29/04/2018 17:13

eugh, how messy. What i don't get is that she did not cover this all up before her death if she knew that it was kept on the quiet, how did she not realise the problems it would bring after her death?

stickerrocks · 29/04/2018 17:18

BiL has already stated that it was a loan, in which case it forms part of the estate and BiL needs to establish how he intends to repay the amount he owes.

If it was a gift, the date then becomes key. It's a Potentially Exempt Transfer within 7 years of death or completely outside the estate if it was given more than 7 years ago.

BiL needs to take a long hard look at his relationship with both brothers. He can't say one thing, then change his mind 5 minutes later when he realises the inheritance implications. The only was he is in the clear financially is if it was given over 7 years ago. The gifts to the other BiL also have to be declared unless (for example) they were given as wedding gifts within limits or, an an earlier poster said, from income. I really think the 3 executors need advice from a solicitor or accountant, as it sounds a mess.