Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

Elder abuse is very common but difficult to prove. Playing favourites is all too common. Get legal advice - as @NannyOgg said sounds like tax liabilities are involved.

I don't know why so many are calling it vulgar to want appropriate and fair estate settlement. I'd get professional input re the potential tax liability from the loans, hire a shit hot negotiator and use that as leverage to achieve a negotiated settlement more towards your favour. You either gotta play nice and lose financially or play tough and get a fairer settlement.

Sounds like whatever, that the family relationships ware already adversely affected, as most often happens in messy settlements

BIL has admitted it was a loan. He therefore owes it to the estate.

You'll just have to kill the brother, OP, he so deserves it... problem solved.

Was it more than 7 years ago? If so, there is no tax liability for inheritance tax as I understand it.

If you re-read your OP, you will find it personifies the green-eyed monster.

She was a parent. When her child came asking for some money to set them up or to get out of a troubling patch, she gave them. Your DH didn't ask, so he didn't get.

There is absolutely no rule which says that siblings should get equal shares of anything. The fact that your DH has been nosing through her bank statements just show his or both your attitude really. She could do with her money as she pleased while she was alive, it is not for you to decide whether it was right or wrong.

Accept it and move on. I reiterate, your OP is ugly.

My parents estate was over the IHT limit and we had to go through the last seven years bank statements to see what gifts had been made. The more recent ones had to be included in the IHT calculation.

Oh, and the bank statements are for tax purposes only as PP point out above. Not to make judgment on how she spent her money.

I agree with Bluntness100. My FIL left my SIL more money than DH and BIL, but we didn't contest it and we certainly didn't trawl through his bank statements (God, how awful!!!). If I die, the last thing I want is for one of my DCs to go through my statement or for them to fight over what was left.

If your DH wants to cause a rift, then it's on HIM but while you said you weren't grabby or money orientated, you certainly sound like from your sob story. It is 100% none of your business and stop whispering things into your DH's ears regarding his DM's inheritance.

If you think you're entitled to grab more of this woman's money for yourself, get legal advice OP.

There is a LOT of bollocks being spoken on this thread with regard to the legal position.

You can easily spot much of it because posters will say things like 'technically blah, blah, blah...'

No idea why MNers so frequently like to offer utterly made-up bullshit as advice in complex situations like this, but there you go...

Morsecode

Op's dilemma doesn't read as ugly to me at all. Your reply, on the other hand ...

Well, when talking about being grabby, a bil who accepts a huge loan he never intends to repay and then accepts a huge inheritance which ignores the huge loan he reneged on, takes the biscuit for grabbiness!!! He has agreed it was a loan, so I assume he does not intend to be monstrously greedy.

Are people doing the usual thing or not reading op properly and missing the fact that the sum of money concerned is hundreds of thousands of pounds?

If they claim they could be so nonchalant/blase about that sort of amount then I say bullshit.

So sorry for the situation you have at present, OP!

My DH was at the "Harsh end" of a will left by his DM where a sibling was left considerably more than he was with no explanation or reasoning at all.

It's all well and good people accusing you of being vulgar and grabby OP but I doubt very much they have been there. Certainly, in our case, the money was pretty irrelevant as we were financially comfortable anyway as was sibling. It was the shock of discovering - in middle age - that DM obviously loved his sibling more when he had never imagined that was the case before. (MIL was always quite distant with the DC and certainly not very maternal.). Even worse he will never know why now as this was only discovered at the will reading although transpires sibling knew about it well before MIL died.

He was left quite devastated by her decision and it still hurts terribly despite it happening many years ago. He never let it affect his relationship with his sibling but I have to admit I have secretly never forgiven sibling for taking such a huge amount of money without a second thought for how DH was left feeling. I know 100% that had the situation been reversed DH would have insisted the split was 50/50 irrespective of what was in the will.

DH was still left with a reasonable sum but he has never touched it. He was so hurt that he just invested it once the estate was settled and it will be passed to our DD upon DH's death which I totally agree with as I want nothing to do with it either.

I know exactly how you are feeling and how you feel so helpless as you can't take the hurt away from your DH. Sod all to do with the money really. ☹️

If I die, the last thing I want is for one of my DCs to go through my statement or for them to fight over what was left.
If they do not go through the statements, they could be in for a VERY nasty shock when HMRC come knocking

The OP has no right to the money
its a bugger but that is life.

If the estate is over the IHT limit and the gift/loan was made within the last 7 years
HMRC might have something to say about it

Leave it to the Executors

It's alright Midthread, don't you worry.

You're struggling financially and are hurt that BIL was given a huge loan that looks like it was never required to be repaid.

I can understand that you are angry and it seems very unfair but I can tell you from bitter experience that if you make a stand about this, you will run the real possibility of tearing the relationships between the remaining siblings apart for good. I speak from experience in a similar situation.

Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way

Perhaps she was a narcissist?

One of their final "fuck you" gestures is The Will. That way, they get to pander to the Golden Child and screw over the Black Sheep one last time from beyond the grave.

Honestly, don't give anyone the satisfaction. The money will feel tainted anyway, even if you do get some of it.

If she WAS a narcissist, then she loved to play divide-and-conquer with her children. Don't let her spoil the sib relationships any further than she has already. Try and use this new era to perhaps strengthen and build these relationships into what they could have/should have been all along without her influence.

Any gifts given (with some small exemptions) in the 7 years before death are calculated for IHT purposes to be within the estate. If there have been over £160k worth of gifts in that time then that will determine which IHT form you complete. If the value of the gifts bring increase the taxable value of the estate after any reliefs are applied then the residuary estate (what the OPs DH will receive) has to bear the tax.

Anyone who doesn’t check the estate back for 7 years is likely to be misdeclaring to the IR.

When the payments were last made counts.

Less than 7 years ago, then it's all still subject to Inheritance Tax.

Even if it was more thsn 7 years ago, Inland Revenue can claim tax if the payments are deemed to be some sort of tax avoidance.

If BIL sticks to his "It was a loan. I meant to repay it", then he must repay the loan. With interest, or else the Inland Revenue sticks their oar in again.

You need legal help and it's a contested probate.

Good luck. 😟

TalkinPeece - I think you might be wrong there, as I googled "legal presumption against double portions" as another poster suggested, and found plenty of evidence that the money given to the bil may count as part of his inheritance - certainly enough evidence to get legal advice on when the presumption applies, if bil is not the honorable type. If I were bil, I would not be able to live with my conscience if I had admitted to having received a loan I had never repaid and was now saying I didn't see why I should!!

Anyway, gift or loan, it is quite clearly the business of the executors and therefore the OP's dh's business!!!

roundabout
I'm a tax accountant
if the gift was over 7 years before her death, the money is his. full stop end of.
If it was less than 7 years then a portion of it should add back into the estate for IHT
unless it was a loan (with proof) in which case he owes the whole lot to the estate
which will then be taxed
and redistributed according to the will
its really very simple

PS When one sibling gets over £100,000 over a few years out of a sub IHT account and the other gets absolutely nothing
its just tough

The right thing for him to do would be to allow the money to be taken into account now and take less of the inheritance.
Legally though? It was her money to do what she wished with. My DP's couldn't help me financially when I needed support but a few years later were in a position to help my Dsibs and did so.Wouldn't occur to me to feel 'wronged' in any way about this. Certainly wouldn't expect more from their estate when/if the time comes.
I wouldn't fall out over money ( don't have much btw so it's not like a windfall wouldn't be welcome) with a sibling, what price would you put on a relationship with a brother or sister? Your DH would regret it for ever more if he tried to force this.

what price would you put on a relationship with a brother or sister?
In our case we have never spoken to the other family member again
it was all too painful and too many nasty things were said and done